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Post by Voxxkowalski on Jun 21, 2017 20:49:20 GMT -5
To what does he refer to being more ukrainian than Catholic...is the Liturgy in Ukrainian?
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Post by Deleted on Jun 21, 2017 21:07:11 GMT -5
To what does he refer to being more ukrainian than Catholic...is the Liturgy in Ukrainian? No, it is not all in Ukranian. The Homilies are in English. The Priest is invariably speaking about the Ukraine.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 21, 2017 21:20:42 GMT -5
After much pondering, I am having a difficult time wrapping my head around the idea that God would allow the Latin Rites to become so invalid or doubtful that there is no place for a Latin Rite Catholic to attend Mass in their own Rite. (I was raised with the Latin Mass and never accepted the Novus Ordo, but didn't understand why or what had happened to the Mass until just 2 yrs ago). How I wish there was an SSPX near me!!
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Post by Clotilde on Jun 21, 2017 21:32:58 GMT -5
To what does he refer to being more ukrainian than Catholic...is the Liturgy in Ukrainian? No, it is not all in Ukranian. The Homilies are in English. The Priest is invariably speaking about the Ukraine. That happens in parishes with a high Ukrainian population, some have a larger mix of Roman rite refugees. They have a different calendar, different fasts, etc. and if you are in a parish with mostly Ukrainians, you are going to find that culturally they are Ukrainian. The Roman rite had French, German, and Italian parishes as well, it's just that demographics and culture has changed here in the US and more quickly among Roman Catholics.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 21, 2017 21:35:39 GMT -5
No, it is not all in Ukranian. The Homilies are in English. The Priest is invariably speaking about the Ukraine. That happens in parishes with a high Ukrainian population, some have a larger mix of Roman rite refugees. They have a different calendar, different fasts, etc. and if you are in a parish with mostly Ukrainians, you are going to find that culturally they are Ukrainian. The Roman rite had French, German, and Italian parishes as well, it's just that demographics and culture has changed here in the US and more quickly among Roman Catholics. We are the only Romans in this particular Ukranian Church!
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Post by Clotilde on Jun 21, 2017 21:55:29 GMT -5
I also was not being defensive, I really want to better answer your questions, I just don't know the basis, which is why I need to read the commentary you mentioned. If I don't know their exact criticism, I cannot really deal with what the issue of the blogger is. We all like having you on this forum, I hope you don't think otherwise. Discussion on complex topics can be intense, and intentions can easily be misread. The eastern rites stand and fall on their own, if there is a point of attack against them as a whole or individually, it's important to grasp the truth of the matter. Yes, I agree that "topics can be intense, and intentions can be easily misread". However, it has been my observation that whenever a question or concern is brought up about the Eastern Rites, some tend to get real testy, real quick. My husband and I have been attending a Ukranian Church ever since the pre-Vatican II Priest who said an Indult Mass got very sick and retired. My husband will not go to the Ukranian Church any longer as he said it is "more Ukranian than Catholic". He is adamant that we cannot attend any more Eastern Rite Churches. I have nowhere left to go. My only other recourse was an independent Chapel who told me I could not receive Holy Communion at their Chapel because I was going to an Indult Mass in the Diocese even after I told them that the Priest was pre-Vatican II. After that experience, we will not attempt to attend any independent Churches either. I am in a quandary. I feel like I am starting all over again. I have been reading, researching and questioning everything all over again. Any suggestions are greatly appreciated. Consider that you are in a difficult place. While you may be thinking aloud here and asking questions, just remember that the charitable Catholics are not judging or condemning you. Keep in mind that not everyone can have the whole picture in mind when advising you, not knowing all of the facts. Another thing is that when you approach a traditional priest, you are approaching another person. He's not perfect, he doesn't always understand everything, and sometimes he just does not have the time. It can be his personal policy or an error that he has made. Maybe he is wrong and needs to be shown why. Maybe you need to be introduced by a third party in a suitable setting to get the whole picture. It is hard to make your case or to even get a good picture on things as an outsider. Believe me, I am aware of all of these policies from various groups. However, you don't have to tell them anything about yourself and you are under no obligation to do so. Sometimes you have to just be content that they are wrong. I know a traditionalist priest that holds an error and no amount of appeal will change his mind. Once I learned more about him and got to know him over the years, I understood why. I just avoid talking to him about anything beyond basics and I try to think of his good qualities. I never see him any more but we are on good terms. However, given the choice I would choose another mass location. If it was between him and never going to mass again, I would likely go to his mass at this point in my life. That can always change, I keep in mind the constant vigilance we need to have in the Crisis. If I may be so bold as to make a point, Veronica, you seem like this is making you weary and troubled. Maybe you should try to focus on other issues or take a break from dealing with it for awhile. It can be stressful and overwhelming. Maybe consider praying a novena or just some extra prayers for these things that are weighing on your mind. Sometimes stepping back can give us a fresh perspective and help us grow spiritually. Just a suggestion. I do hope that you will continue to post here, as I look forward to reading your posts.
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Post by Clotilde on Jun 21, 2017 21:57:30 GMT -5
That happens in parishes with a high Ukrainian population, some have a larger mix of Roman rite refugees. They have a different calendar, different fasts, etc. and if you are in a parish with mostly Ukrainians, you are going to find that culturally they are Ukrainian. The Roman rite had French, German, and Italian parishes as well, it's just that demographics and culture has changed here in the US and more quickly among Roman Catholics. We are the only Romans in this particular Ukranian Church! I guess you need to learn Mnohaya lita and how to make pyrohy! Hahaha!
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Post by Deleted on Jun 22, 2017 5:04:05 GMT -5
Are some so dogmatic that one cannot express their fears or feelings or concerns or questions regarding this terrible crisis in the Church for fear of being judged or condemned? I thought that was what this forum was for - a safe place to go to express our fears, concerns or questions. A place for each person to try to navigate this crisis to the best of their ability with what resources they have available to them within their respective areas. Peoples circumstances do change and this sometimes calls for a re-evaluation to continue navigating this crisis in the Church.
Some of us just can't go to whatever Church we want as we have spouses and must render consideration to them. Unfortunately where I live there is no SSPX and the Eastern Rites cannot be the be all and end all in this regard as my spouse refuses to attend Eastern Rites any longer.
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Post by Pacelli on Jun 22, 2017 6:05:20 GMT -5
Are some so dogmatic that one cannot express their fears or feelings or concerns or questions regarding this terrible crisis in the Church for fear of being judged or condemned? I thought that was what this forum was for - a safe place to go to express our fears, concerns or questions. A place for each person to try to navigate this crisis to the best of their ability with what resources they have available to them within their respective areas. Peoples circumstances do change and this sometimes calls for a re-evaluation to continue navigating this crisis in the Church. Some of us just can't go to whatever Church we want as we have spouses and must render consideration to them. Unfortunately where I live there is no SSPX and the Eastern Rites cannot be the be all and end all in this regard as my spouse refuses to attend Eastern Rites any longer. I think everyone on here sympathizes with your situation. Paul VI created this mess, and all of us have suffered as a result. We have all suffered, and still suffer from the decisions he made in the 1960's.
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Post by Voxxkowalski on Jun 22, 2017 13:54:11 GMT -5
Forget that I ever posed any questions regarding the Eastern Rites. I didn't realize that by doing so everyone would get so defensive. I read a lot and do a lot of research as I worked for years as a Paralegal and that is my God given talent. I will never stop reading, researching and questioning unless I am in the grave. If I am not accepted here for who I am, please advise me, as I don't want to stay anywhere I am not wanted or welcomed? Dear Lady you are our friend...please be at peace you are eminently welcome here and I consider it an honor your a member...Im sorry if I came off defensive...not at all my feelings Veronica did you read this? This is my feelings...I think your over reacting...no ones judging you at all. Youre free to question or show concerns about all of this...please be at peace.
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