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Post by Voxxkowalski on Dec 5, 2016 22:54:39 GMT -5
Lets just say I collect them in my "travels"
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Post by Deleted on Dec 6, 2016 22:09:16 GMT -5
Didn't the Church originate in the East before moving to Rome?
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Post by Voxxkowalski on Dec 7, 2016 6:29:14 GMT -5
Didn't the Church originate in the East before moving to Rome? No....St Cyril and Methodius were sent east as missionarys.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 7, 2016 7:42:59 GMT -5
Didn't the Church originate in the East before moving to Rome? No....St Cyril and Methodius were sent east as missionarys. Good to know! Thanks for the info.
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Post by Clotilde on Dec 7, 2016 12:59:38 GMT -5
How do you explain to someone who insists that there is only the ROMAN Catholic Rite as they never heard of or encountered the Eastern Rite?? I can't get them to understand about the Eastern Rite and the Roman Rite being the same Church. Perhaps it is the way I am trying to explain it. (This person thinks that by my going to the Ukranian Church that I have left the ROMAN Catholic Church). Please help!! (Ironically, the person is Novus Ordo)! How do explain the moon to someone who insists it doesnt exist? Anyway tell them to google it and walk away. I have, over the years, driven myself crazy trying to explain the Eastern Rites to Roman Rite Catholics. One time I tested my explanation and separately asked two non-Catholics if I could explain something, and for them to stop me when they understood. It took like a minute. You cant even get people to Google things!
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Post by Deleted on Dec 25, 2016 20:01:08 GMT -5
I had a difficult time getting my Irish husband to understand that the Roman Catholic Church is comprised of the Eastern Rite Churches. He finally understood and today he accompanied me to the Ukranian Church. It was a small congregation and I believe we were the only ones there from the Roman Rite. Unbelievably, we ran into our next door neighbors there who I only knew by saying the occasional "hello". I thought they spoke with a Russian accent, but evidently they are Ukranian!!
I noticed that while there were kneelers in the pews that no one ever knelt. Could someone explain why there is no kneeling? It was a beautiful Liturgy and, as my husband stated afterwards, "there was definitely something there, not empty like the Novus Ordo".
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Post by Pacelli on Dec 25, 2016 21:30:08 GMT -5
I had a difficult time getting my Irish husband to understand that the Roman Catholic Church is comprised of the Eastern Rite Churches. He finally understood and today he accompanied me to the Ukranian Church. It was a small congregation and I believe we were the only ones there from the Roman Rite. Unbelievably, we ran into our next door neighbors there who I only knew by saying the occasional "hello". I thought they spoke with a Russian accent, but evidently they are Ukranian!! I noticed that while there were kneelers in the pews that no one ever knelt. Could someone explain why there is no kneeling? It was a beautiful Liturgy and, as my husband stated afterwards, "there was definitely something there, not empty like the Novus Ordo". I think it is good that you brought this up. The eastern rites developed on their own separately from the Roman Rite, so some on their customs might seem a little odd at first, since you are not used to them, but keep in mind, that these are all legitimate customs of their own rites and there is no problem with them. I just posted some frequently asked questions HERE I think it the important thing to realize is that when we go to an eastern rite, we are going to a very ancient and old tradition that is not out own, so there are going to be significant differences. They developed very differently than the Roman Rite, so there traditions are different but equally good. You will see this with many things, icons, standing vs. kneeling, bowing vs. genuflecting, making the sign of the cross from right to left, leavened bread used in Holy Communion, Communion under both species, i.e. the Body and Blood combined and both given at Communion, married priests, separate hierarchies and dioceses with their own bishops and priests not under the jurisdiction of Roman Rite bishops, etc. In the eastern rites, these are normal and approved traditions, but it is easy to accept once it is grasped that Catholicism developed virtually independently in the east and west, but both traditions are accepted, approved, fully Catholic, and are pleasing to God.
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Post by Voxxkowalski on Dec 25, 2016 21:35:15 GMT -5
The bit about not kneeling is ecumenical bovine excrement as per a sop to the schismatics...kneeling developed organically in the American Church and is only frowned on by the lovers of the orthoducks.IMHO
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Post by Pacelli on Dec 25, 2016 23:00:36 GMT -5
Possibly, but I would like to see approved sources showing what practice existed in the eastern Catholic rites prior to "Latinization."
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Post by Deleted on Dec 26, 2016 0:09:56 GMT -5
Why does the Ukranian Church I attended have kneelers in the pews if they don't kneel and only stand?
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Post by wenceslav on Dec 26, 2016 0:54:12 GMT -5
Dear Pacelli, Greek Catholics in Slovakia and Western Ukraine (Presov and Uzhorod) always knelt for the reception of Holy Communion. As Vox suggests it was an organic development after their Unia with the Holy See. In Canada (where my parents escaped to from Communism), standing for Holy Communion was forced upon the laity as an innovation post VII in addition to false ecumenism which is very rampant up here - Hence my only alternative being the SSPX. Note I am not suggesting that you not attend a Ukrainian Catholic Divine Liturgy but be very careful about the priest's sermon and its effect on children or others not well schooled in the Faith. It is very common to hear that heretical dribble about "sister churches" and "orthodox" visitors are encouraged to partake of Holy Communion by the priest.
On another note, even a mandatory celibacy of the secular clergy was slowly being implemented in Ukraine in the early 20th century throughout Ukraine with support from Met. Sheptytsky - which ended with the chaos of communist occupation.
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Post by Voxxkowalski on Dec 26, 2016 9:36:27 GMT -5
Possibly, but I would like to see approved sources showing what practice existed in the eastern Catholic rites prior to "Latinization." Theres no "possibly"....its a fact. Dont fall for the all latinizations are bad vat2 humbug.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 26, 2016 10:48:00 GMT -5
Is it indicative of all Ukranian Churches that they don't use their kneelers to kneel, or is the Church I attended one among the minority who don't use the kneelers?
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Post by Pacelli on Dec 26, 2016 11:24:36 GMT -5
Possibly, but I would like to see approved sources showing what practice existed in the eastern Catholic rites prior to "Latinization." Theres no "possibly"....its a fact. Dont fall for the all latinizations are bad vat2 humbug. That's not what I was saying or thinking.
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Post by Voxxkowalski on Dec 26, 2016 16:51:49 GMT -5
Possibly, but I would like to see approved sources showing what practice existed in the eastern Catholic rites prior to "Latinization." Youll have to define "prior to Latinizations" and remeber the Roman Church in America was put in charge of the eastern rites...so there were Latinizations imposed on them...but after a hundred years and before VAT2 many of these became organic to the Churches.... so now what? You know very well I was not happy that many "Catholic" practices were deemed "latinizations" on technical grounds and simply abolished without any thought to the effect on the laity...and for no other reason than to kiss orthoduck butts.
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