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Post by Deleted on Jun 7, 2017 8:00:42 GMT -5
The NO priest (unless he is very old) is probably of no use. The old pre-Vatican II Priests that I know and was going to for confession have all gotten real ill or have retired. Evidently the Ukranian Hierarcy recognizes the validity of all Novus Ordo Priests. Since I am only a lay person, maybe I am wrong in doubting the validity of post Vatican II Priests??
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Post by Voxxkowalski on Jun 7, 2017 8:23:37 GMT -5
The NO priest (unless he is very old) is probably of no use. The old pre-Vatican II Priests that I know and was going to for confession have all gotten real ill or have retired. Evidently the Ukranian Hierarcy recognizes the validity of all Novus Ordo Priests. Since I am only a lay person, maybe I am wrong in doubting the validity of post Vatican II Priests?? I cant see how?
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Post by Pacelli on Jun 7, 2017 8:24:35 GMT -5
The NO priest (unless he is very old) is probably of no use. The old pre-Vatican II Priests that I know and was going to for confession have all gotten real ill or have retired. Evidently the Ukranian Hierarcy recognizes the validity of all Novus Ordo Priests. Since I am only a lay person, maybe I am wrong in doubting the validity of post Vatican II Priests?? Veronica, all of the eastern rites recognize the claims of the post Vatican II papal claimants. From that first principle it must be presumed that all rites approved by the Pope are valid. That is most likely the logic they are using. I highly doubt any eastern rite bishop or priest has studied this area of sacramental theology, and then compared the Paul VI rite to the Catholic rite. They believe what they believe only because the accept the papal claims of the Vatican II Popes. If that ever changes, all conclusions built on that foundation crumble.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 20, 2017 18:44:10 GMT -5
I just read on a blog where John Paul II changed the Eastern Rite Canon Law to reflect the changes in Vatican II. Also that the sacraments were changed. Are these changes to the Eastern Rite true?
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Post by Voxxkowalski on Jun 20, 2017 19:16:57 GMT -5
I just read on a blog where John Paul II changed the Eastern Rite Canon Law to reflect the changes in Vatican II. Also that the sacraments were changed. Are these changes to the Eastern Rite true? It would be nice to have specifics..and whos blog was it.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 20, 2017 19:38:09 GMT -5
I just read on a blog where John Paul II changed the Eastern Rite Canon Law to reflect the changes in Vatican II. Also that the sacraments were changed. Are these changes to the Eastern Rite true? It would be nice to have specifics..and whos blog was it. Voxx - Just sent you a PM.
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Post by Pacelli on Jun 20, 2017 20:33:22 GMT -5
It would be nice to have specifics..and whos blog was it. Voxx - Just sent you a PM. John Paul II did approve the eastern Code of Canon Law. The sacramental rites are intact and unchanged, but some non-essential changes were made not affecting the validity of the rites.
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Post by Voxxkowalski on Jun 20, 2017 22:42:25 GMT -5
The blog is a dogmatic NUC site.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 20, 2017 23:23:13 GMT -5
The blog is a dogmatic NUC site. I know that the author is non una cum and I don't agree with that at all. I was just questioning what he said regarding the Canon Law and the Sacraments as I never heard of them being changed before. When people get dogmatic and bigoted in this crisis, I tend to steer clear.
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Post by Voxxkowalski on Jun 21, 2017 4:40:08 GMT -5
Like it or not there comes a time when we have to stop litigating the Crisis and simply live our faith as best we can with what we have.(Im talking to everyone not just you Veronica) The machinations...the politics...the sweet innuendo...scandles...controversys...etc etc..when do we stop and thank God for what we do have? Are we to be forever sifting and analyzing and researching? At a certain point I as a sheep will simply pause and enjoy what patches of good food the Master has provided and graze in peace. And stop roaming and searching for the perfect patch of clover...never resting. Such is this crisis IMHO
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Post by Pacelli on Jun 21, 2017 8:13:39 GMT -5
The blog is a dogmatic NUC site. I know that the author is non una cum and I don't agree with that at all. I was just questioning what he said regarding the Canon Law and the Sacraments as I never heard of them being changed before. When people get dogmatic and bigoted in this crisis, I tend to steer clear. I don't see what the point of the Canon Law issue is? Maybe if I read the argument I can understand what your getting at. Could you post the link? Regarding the sacramental rites, all eastern rites are intact. The hierarchies of the particular rites have made some changes, mostly delainzations to their practices, and have allowed new translations, but with that said, substantially, the rites remain intact and essentially unchanged.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 21, 2017 10:57:33 GMT -5
Forget that I ever posed any questions regarding the Eastern Rites. I didn't realize that by doing so everyone would get so defensive. I read a lot and do a lot of research as I worked for years as a Paralegal and that is my God given talent. I will never stop reading, researching and questioning unless I am in the grave. If I am not accepted here for who I am, please advise me, as I don't want to stay anywhere I am not wanted or welcomed?
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Post by Voxxkowalski on Jun 21, 2017 11:22:54 GMT -5
Forget that I ever posed any questions regarding the Eastern Rites. I didn't realize that by doing so everyone would get so defensive. I read a lot and do a lot of research as I worked for years as a Paralegal and that is my God given talent. I will never stop reading, researching and questioning unless I am in the grave. If I am not accepted here for who I am, please advise me, as I don't want to stay anywhere I am not wanted or welcomed? Dear Lady you are our friend...please be at peace you are eminently welcome here and I consider it an honor your a member...Im sorry if I came off defensive...not at all my feelings
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Post by Pacelli on Jun 21, 2017 11:30:15 GMT -5
Forget that I ever posed any questions regarding the Eastern Rites. I didn't realize that by doing so everyone would get so defensive. I read a lot and do a lot of research as I worked for years as a Paralegal and that is my God given talent. I will never stop reading, researching and questioning unless I am in the grave. If I am not accepted here for who I am, please advise me, as I don't want to stay anywhere I am not wanted or welcomed? I also was not being defensive, I really want to better answer your questions, I just don't know the basis, which is why I need to read the commentary you mentioned. If I don't know their exact criticism, I cannot really deal with what the issue of the blogger is. We all like having you on this forum, I hope you don't think otherwise. Discussion on complex topics can be intense, and intentions can easily be misread. The eastern rites stand and fall on their own, if there is a point of attack against them as a whole or individually, it's important to grasp the truth of the matter.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 21, 2017 20:18:38 GMT -5
Forget that I ever posed any questions regarding the Eastern Rites. I didn't realize that by doing so everyone would get so defensive. I read a lot and do a lot of research as I worked for years as a Paralegal and that is my God given talent. I will never stop reading, researching and questioning unless I am in the grave. If I am not accepted here for who I am, please advise me, as I don't want to stay anywhere I am not wanted or welcomed? I also was not being defensive, I really want to better answer your questions, I just don't know the basis, which is why I need to read the commentary you mentioned. If I don't know their exact criticism, I cannot really deal with what the issue of the blogger is. We all like having you on this forum, I hope you don't think otherwise. Discussion on complex topics can be intense, and intentions can easily be misread. The eastern rites stand and fall on their own, if there is a point of attack against them as a whole or individually, it's important to grasp the truth of the matter. Yes, I agree that "topics can be intense, and intentions can be easily misread". However, it has been my observation that whenever a question or concern is brought up about the Eastern Rites, some tend to get real testy, real quick. My husband and I have been attending a Ukranian Church ever since the pre-Vatican II Priest who said an Indult Mass got very sick and retired. My husband will not go to the Ukranian Church any longer as he said it is "more Ukranian than Catholic". He is adamant that we cannot attend any more Eastern Rite Churches. I have nowhere left to go. My only other recourse was an independent Chapel who told me I could not receive Holy Communion at their Chapel because I was going to an Indult Mass in the Diocese even after I told them that the Priest was pre-Vatican II. After that experience, we will not attempt to attend any independent Churches either. I am in a quandary. I feel like I am starting all over again. I have been reading, researching and questioning everything all over again. Any suggestions are greatly appreciated.
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