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Post by truth333 on Dec 4, 2017 0:51:06 GMT -5
Both, scripture and catholic teaching, say that a man who dies, alienated from the catholic church and or in a state of mortal sin, in the external forum, does go to hell. A man who has demonstrated, by external forum, a violation of God's law, and has died without proving to the contrary, that he has repented and amended, then by that fact, that man is in hell, by his own doing. Canon 2200.2, 1917 Code: “Positing an external violation of the law, malice in the external forum is presumed until the contrary is proven.” Concerning judging, God tells us not to judge hypocritically, He never said that catholics could not judge. Luke 6:37-42 [37] Judge not, and you shall not be judged. Condemn not, and you shall not be condemned. Forgive, and you shall be forgiven. [38] Give, and it shall be given to you: good measure and pressed down and shaken together and running over shall they give into your bosom. For with the same measure that you shall mete withal, it shall be measured to you again. [39] And he spoke also to them a similitude: Can the blind lead the blind? do they not both fall into the ditch? [40] The disciple is not above his master: but every one shall be perfect, if he be as his master. [41] And why seest thou the mote in thy brother's eye: but the beam that is in thy own eye thou considerest not? [42] Or how canst thou say to thy brother: Brother, let me pull the mote out of thy eye, when thou thyself seest not the beam in thy own eye? Hypocrite, cast first the beam out of thy own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to take out the mote from thy brother's eye. To further clarify these verses, a catholic, if he is going to help an alcoholic, then that catholic better not be one, who abuses alcohol, also. It only makes perfect sense. Holy scripture and the catholic church teaches that a catholic must judge. 1 Thessalonians 5:14, 21-22 [14] And we beseech you, brethren, rebuke the unquiet, comfort the feeble minded, support the weak, be patient towards all men. [15] See that none render evil for evil to any man; but ever follow that which is good towards each other, and towards all men. … [21] But prove all things; hold fast that which is good. [22] From all appearance of evil refrain yourselves. 1 Corinthians 5:11-13 [11] But now I have written to you, not to keep company, if any man that is named a brother, be a fornicator, or covetous, or a server of idols, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner: with such a one, not so much as to eat. [12] For what have I to do to judge them that are without? Do not you judge them that are within? [13] For them that are without, God will judge. Put away the evil one from among yourselves. The Catholic spiritual works of mercy are: To instruct the ignorant; To counsel the doubtful; To admonish sinners; All of these truths that have been provided, deal with actions in the external forum, good or bad. And God has said that a man can know, and must judge these things, as good or bad and what will happen to those of bad fruit. Matthew 7:16-20 [16] By their fruits you shall know them. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? [17] Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit, and the evil tree bringeth forth evil fruit. [18] A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can an evil tree bring forth good fruit. [19] Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit, shall be cut down, and shall be cast into the fire. [20] Wherefore by their fruits you shall know them. The catholic church has clearly taught that those outside the catholic church cannot be saved, they are cast into the fire. Pope Eugene IV, Council of Florence, “Cantate Domino,” 1441, ex cathedra: “ The Holy Roman Church firmly believes, professes and preaches that all those who are outside the Catholic Church, not only pagans but also Jews or heretics and schismatics, cannot share in eternal life and will go into the everlasting fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels, unless they are joined to the Church before the end of their lives… and that nobody can be saved, no matter how much he has given away in alms and even if he has shed blood in the name of Christ, unless he has persevered in the bosom and unity of the Catholic Church.” I personally wish that all men would come into the catholic church but the church teaches that few are saved. Biblical history has demonstrated consistently, that few are saved. Do to sin, God always faithfully punishes [destroys] the majority, reducing His church to a remnant, those who held the faith inviolate. Matthew 22:14 For many are called, but few are chosen. Exodus 23:2 Thou shalt not follow the multitude to do evil: neither shalt thou yield in judgment, to the opinion of the most part, to stray from the truth. Saint Leonard of Port Maurice [A.D. 1676-1751], on the fewness of the saved: “After consulting all the theologians and making a diligent study of the matter, he [Suarez] wrote, ‘The most common sentiment which is held is that, among Christians [Catholics], there are more damned souls than predestined souls.’ Add the authority of the Greek and Latin Fathers to that of the theologians, and you will find that almost all of them say the same thing. This is the sentiment of Saint Theodore, Saint Basil, Saint Ephrem, Saint John Chrysostom. What is more, according to Baronius it was a common opinion among the Greek Fathers that this truth was expressly revealed to Saint Simeon Stylites and that after this revelation, it was to secure his salvation that he decided to live standing on top of a pillar for forty years, exposed to the weather, a model of penance and holiness for everyone. Now let us consult the Latin Fathers. You will hear Saint Gregory saying clearly, “Many attain to faith, but few to the heavenly kingdom.” Saint Anselm declares, “There are few who are saved.” Saint Augustine states even more clearly, “Therefore, few are saved in comparison to those who are damned.” The most terrifying, however, is Saint Jerome. At the end of his life, in the presence of his disciples, he spoke these dreadful words: “Out of one hundred thousand people whose lives have always been bad, you will find barely one who is worthy of indulgence.” Saint Anselm: “If thou wouldst be certain of being in the number of the elect, strive to be one of the few, not of the many. And if thou wouldst be quite sure of thy salvation, strive to be among the fewest of the few… Do not follow the great majority of mankind, but follow those who enter upon the narrow way, who renounce the world, who give themselves to prayer, and who never relax their efforts by day or by night, that they may attain everlasting blessedness.” (Fr. Martin Von Cochem, The Four Last Things, p. 221.) All true, but irrelevant to this thread. How on the one hand is everything true regarding reprobates but on the other its irrelevant. Can you specify, as to what you are saying. Can you give the details on your thoughts?
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Post by Pacelli on Dec 4, 2017 1:17:59 GMT -5
All true, but irrelevant to this thread. How on the one hand is everything true regarding reprobates but on the other its irrelevant. Can you specify, as to what you are saying. Can you give the details on your thoughts? We don't know with certainty that he died in his sins. While it looks that way, that fact has not been revealed to us.
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recusant
Approved Cath Resource contributor
Posts: 86
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Post by recusant on Dec 4, 2017 7:04:34 GMT -5
How on the one hand is everything true regarding reprobates but on the other its irrelevant. Can you specify, as to what you are saying. Can you give the details on your thoughts? We don't know with certainty that he died in his sins. While it looks that way, that fact has not been revealed to us. Pacelli is absolutely correct. In essence, this is the same mistake the Feeneyites make. Let’s not presume what happens at the moment of death. With that said, The Church treats these people, that appear to have died outside of the fold, as having died outside the fold and thus they are not eligible for an ecclesiastical burial and are treated as the reprobate. What we can’t say for certain is that they did not repent at the hour of their death and thus went to hell. We will know this answer when we have entered into eternity or at the general judgement. Pacelli, do you know which?
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Post by truth333 on Dec 4, 2017 15:53:49 GMT -5
How on the one hand is everything true regarding reprobates but on the other its irrelevant. Can you specify, as to what you are saying. Can you give the details on your thoughts? We don't know with certainty that he died in his sins. While it looks that way, that fact has not been revealed to us. "All true, but irrelevant to this thread." From your perspective, everything that you agreed with regarding my post should be just thrown out. The subject to the rule of law, does not apply. There should be no order to follow. Everything should just be, at the unknown mercy of God. You attempt to make the extreme exception, to become the rule. 1 Peter 4:18-19 [18] And if the just man shall scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear? [19] Wherefore let them also that suffer according to the will of God, commend their souls in good deeds to the faithful Creator. Please take notice of what St. Peter says in verse 18. Also, in verse 19, St. Peter says to do good deeds to the Faithful Creator, Jesus Christ. This means to do [fulfill] the commands of God, everything that He commanded. Works, action is mandatory. Faith alone is void and profitless!
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Post by Pacelli on Dec 4, 2017 16:34:08 GMT -5
We don't know with certainty that he died in his sins. While it looks that way, that fact has not been revealed to us. Pacelli is absolutely correct. In essence, this is the same mistake the Feeneyites make. Let’s not presume what happens at the moment of death. With that said, The Church treats these people, that appear to have died outside of the fold, as having died outside the fold and thus they are not eligible for an ecclesiastical burial and are treated as the reprobate. What we can’t say for certain is that they did not repent at the hour of their death and thus went to hell. We will know this answer when we have entered into eternity or at the general judgement. Pacelli, do you know which? I think it relatively certain that we will at least know who in Heaven if we are there, as this will be clear as to who is there and who is not. I don't think all specific knowledge about other's judgments will be revealed until the General judgment.
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Post by Pacelli on Dec 4, 2017 16:36:46 GMT -5
We don't know with certainty that he died in his sins. While it looks that way, that fact has not been revealed to us. "All true, but irrelevant to this thread." From your perspective, everything that you agreed with regarding my post should be just thrown out. The subject to the rule of law, does not apply. There should be no order to follow. Everything should just be, at the unknown mercy of God. You attempt to make the extreme exception, to become the rule. 1 Peter 4:18-19 [18] And if the just man shall scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear? [19] Wherefore let them also that suffer according to the will of God, commend their souls in good deeds to the faithful Creator. Please take notice of what St. Peter says in verse 18. Also, in verse 19, St. Peter says to do good deeds to the Faithful Creator, Jesus Christ. This means to do [fulfill] the commands of God, everything that He commanded. Works, action is mandatory. Faith alone is void and profitless! It is not relevant to whether any of us may make judgments against particular persons as to whether they be are saved or damned on our own authority, which is what this thread is about.
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Post by truth333 on Dec 4, 2017 17:43:42 GMT -5
"All true, but irrelevant to this thread." From your perspective, everything that you agreed with regarding my post should be just thrown out. The subject to the rule of law, does not apply. There should be no order to follow. Everything should just be, at the unknown mercy of God. You attempt to make the extreme exception, to become the rule. 1 Peter 4:18-19 [18] And if the just man shall scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear? [19] Wherefore let them also that suffer according to the will of God, commend their souls in good deeds to the faithful Creator. Please take notice of what St. Peter says in verse 18. Also, in verse 19, St. Peter says to do good deeds to the Faithful Creator, Jesus Christ. This means to do [fulfill] the commands of God, everything that He commanded. Works, action is mandatory. Faith alone is void and profitless! It is not relevant to whether any of us may make judgments against particular persons as to whether they be are saved or damned on our own authority, which is what this thread is about. "whether they be are saved or damned on our own authority…" Agreed. But that would be the white elephant in the middle of the room, its self evident. We judge not according to our ways but judge according to Catholic teaching on the ungodly, who die outside the Catholic church. This is why I proffered the truths, that God commands catholics to judge but judge justly according to Catholic teaching.
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Post by Pacelli on Dec 4, 2017 17:53:02 GMT -5
It is not relevant to whether any of us may make judgments against particular persons as to whether they be are saved or damned on our own authority, which is what this thread is about. "whether they be are saved or damned on our own authority…" Agreed. But that would be the white elephant in the middle of the room, its self evident. We judge not according to our ways but judge according to Catholic teaching on the ungodly, who die outside the Catholic church. This is why I proffered the truths, that God commands catholics to judge but judge justly according to Catholic teaching. We may make a judgement as to what it appears, but we cannot have certitude, a certain judgment, as that is to God alone to make such a judgment and to reveal what that judgment was. If anyone say otherwise, he by that fact logically denying the possibility of an end of life conversion which is known only to God alone. I would be the first to say that by all appearances Mr. Hefner is most likely in Hell, based in the way he lived, in flagrant disobedience to God. I will also acknowledge that death bed confessions are not the norm, they are extraordinary. With all of that said, however, we simply do not know what happened at the end of Hefner's life, in the last hours, in the last minutes. Only God knows what happened and only He knows his final judgment. To say with certainty that Hefner (without a revelation from God) is in Hell is to rashly presume to speak for God.
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Post by truth333 on Dec 4, 2017 19:08:41 GMT -5
"whether they be are saved or damned on our own authority…" Agreed. But that would be the white elephant in the middle of the room, its self evident. We judge not according to our ways but judge according to Catholic teaching on the ungodly, who die outside the Catholic church. This is why I proffered the truths, that God commands catholics to judge but judge justly according to Catholic teaching. We may make a judgement as to what it appears, but we cannot have certitude, a certain judgment, as that is to God alone to make such a judgment and to reveal what that judgment was. If anyone say otherwise, he by that fact logically is denying the possibility of an end of life conversion which is known only to God alone. I would be the first to say that by all appearances Mr. Hefner is most likely in Hell, based in the way he lived, in flagrant disobedience to God. I will also acknowledge that death bed confessions are not the norm, they are extraordinary. With all of that said, however, we simply do not know what happened at the end of Hefner's life, in the last hours, in the last minutes. Only God knows what happened and only He knows his final judgment. To say with certainty that Hefner (without a revelation from God) is in Hell is to rashly presume to speak for God. Pacelli, in charity, the problem with your words, with a liberal tone, and this is how I approach everything, to many in the world, who are weak in the catholic faith or are researching to find the truth, it is better to speak diligently in a very conservative strict way, concerning God's Laws. It is never a good thing to promote the extreme and very rare salvific circumstance of an apostate. It give a false impression, as to the strictness of God's word. God did not spare Adam or the world, Adam was cast out and all nature of the world was corrupted. Its better to live faithfully in obedience rather than relying on a false notion that Jesus will give me a free pass concerning a bad life lived. This is what I see with many people that call themselves traditionalists. Always promoting and saying; "Oh, we just don't know what Jesus will do, concerning the one who died as a reprobate" i.e. some unknown mercy of God. This in fact, is a very uncharitable thing to say to anyone. Be strong, promote obedience to the law, period. If someone rejects God, that is their problem. Please remember that Jesus has been given an office, by God the Father and that is the office of a judge. And Jesus can do no other, than judge. And He will do so! Psalms 65:5 Come and see the works of God; who is terrible in his counsels over the sons of men. The office of Mercy has been given to the Queen of heaven, Mary most Holy, as intercessor to her Son, Jesus. This is the structure of God's monarchy, that of a King and a Queen. We can see this in the Book of Esther. This is why the Rosary is so very important, especially in these latter times. As Noe had to get on the Ark to be saved, and the mosaic judeans had to be devoted to the old testament ark, so it is that true catholics have to be devoted to the Immaculate heart of Mary and the recitation of the Rosary for salvation. St. Louis De Montfort: “… many others have proved invincibly, from the sentiments of the Fathers (among others, St. Augustine, St. Ephrem, St. Cyril of Jerusalem, St. Germanus, St. John Damascene, St. Anselm, St. Bernard, St. Bernardine, St. Thomas and St. Bonaventure), that devotion to Mary is necessary to salvation, and that… it is an infallible mark of reprobation to have no esteem and love for the holy Virgin.” (True Devotion to Mary # 40) St. Louis De Montfort (+1710): “Blessed Alan de la Roche who was so deeply devoted to the Blessed Virgin had many revelations from her and we know that he confirmed the truth of these revelations by a solemn oath. Three of them stand out with special emphasis: the first, that if people fail to say the Hail Mary (the Angelic Salutation which has saved the world) out of carelessness, or because they are lukewarm, or because they hate it, this is a sign that they will probably and indeed shortly be condemned to eternal punishment.” (Secret of the Rosary, p. 45) St. Louis De Montfort (+1710): “…. there are some very sanctifying interior practices for those whom the Holy Ghost calls to high perfection. These may be expressed in four words: to do all things by Mary, with Mary, in Mary and for Mary; so that we may do them all the more perfectly by Jesus, with Jesus, in Jesus and for Jesus.” (True Devotion to Mary #257) St. Louis De Montfort, True Devotion to Mary #39: “We must not confuse devotion to the Blessed Virgin with devotions to the other saints, as if devotion to her were not far more necessary than devotion to them, and as if devotion to her were a matter of supererogation [extra special devotion].” St. Louis De Montfort (+1706): “Make for me, if you will, a new road to go to Jesus, and pave it with all the merits of the blessed, adorn it with all their heroic virtues, illuminate and embellish it with all the lights and beauties of the angels, and let all the angels and saints be there themselves, to escort, defend and sustain those who are ready to walk there; and yet in truth, I say boldly, and I repeat that I say truly, I would prefer to this new, perfect path the immaculate way of Mary.” (True Devotion to Mary #158) St. Louis De Montfort: “As there are secrets of nature by which natural operations are performed more easily, in a short time and at little cost; so are there secrets in the order of grace by which supernatural operations, such as ridding ourselves of self, filling ourselves with God, and becoming perfect, are performed more easily. The practice which I am about to disclose [of true devotion to Mary] is one of these secrets, unknown to the greater number of Christians, known even to few of the devout, and practiced and relished by a lesser number still.” (True Devotion to Mary #82) Ecclesiasticus 6:21-23 [21] How very unpleasant is wisdom to the unlearned, and the unwise will not continue with her. [22] She shall be to them as a mighty stone of trial, and they will cast her from them before it be long. [23] For the wisdom of doctrine is according to her name, and she is not manifest unto many, but with them to whom she is known, she continueth even to the sight of God. St. Louis De Montfort (+ c. 1710): “ By this practice [the True Devotion to Mary which he teaches], faithfully observed, you will give Jesus more glory in a month than by any other practice, however difficult, in many years…” (True Devotion to Mary #222) Regarding the Holy Rosary, Sister Lucia told Father Fuentes in a famous 1957 interview:
“Look, Father, the Most Holy Virgin in these last times in which we live has given a new efficacy to the recitation of the Holy Rosary. She has given this efficacy to such an extent that there is no problem, no matter how difficult it is, whether temporal or above all, spiritual, in the personal life of each one of us, of our families, of the families of the world, or of the religious communities, or even of the life of peoples and nations that cannot be solved by the Rosary. There is no problem I tell you, no matter how difficult it is, that we cannot resolve by the prayer of the Holy Rosary. With the Holy Rosary, we will save ourselves. We will sanctify ourselves. We will console Our Lord and obtain the salvation of many souls.” The Rosary >>> Ecclesiasticus 6:29-34 [29] For in the latter end thou shalt find rest in her, and she shall be turned to thy joy. [30] Then shall her fetters be a strong defence for thee, and a firm foundation, and her chain a robe of glory: [31] For in her is the beauty of life, and her bands are a healthful binding. [32] Thou shalt put her on as a robe of glory, and thou shalt set her upon thee as a crown of joy. [33] My son, if thou wilt attend to me, thou shalt learn: and if thou wilt apply thy mind, thou shalt be wise. [34] If thou wilt incline thy ear, thou shalt receive instruction: and if thou love to hear, thou shalt be wise.
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Post by Pacelli on Dec 4, 2017 19:24:44 GMT -5
We may make a judgement as to what it appears, but we cannot have certitude, a certain judgment, as that is to God alone to make such a judgment and to reveal what that judgment was. If anyone say otherwise, he by that fact logically is denying the possibility of an end of life conversion which is known only to God alone. I would be the first to say that by all appearances Mr. Hefner is most likely in Hell, based in the way he lived, in flagrant disobedience to God. I will also acknowledge that death bed confessions are not the norm, they are extraordinary. With all of that said, however, we simply do not know what happened at the end of Hefner's life, in the last hours, in the last minutes. Only God knows what happened and only He knows his final judgment. To say with certainty that Hefner (without a revelation from God) is in Hell is to rashly presume to speak for God. Pacelli, in charity, the problem with your words, with a liberal tone, and this is how I approach everything, to many in the world, who are weak in the catholic faith or are researching to find the truth, it is better to speak diligently in a very conservative strict way, concerning God's Laws. It is never a good thing to promote the extreme and very rare salvific circumstance of an apostate. It give a false impression, as to the strictness of God's word. God did not spare Adam or the world, Adam was cast out and all nature of the world was corrupted. Its better to live faithfully in obedience rather than relying on a false notion that Jesus will give me a free pass concerning a bad life lived. This is what I see with many people that call themselves traditionalists. Always promoting and saying; "Oh, we just don't know what Jesus will do, concerning the one who died as a reprobate" i.e. some unknown mercy of God. This in fact, is a very uncharitable thing to say to anyone. Be strong, promote obedience to the law, period. If someone rejects God, that is their problem. Please remember that Jesus has been given an office, by God the Father and that is the office of a judge. And Jesus can do no other, than judge. And He will do so! Psalms 65:5 Come and see the works of God; who is terrible in his counsels over the sons of men. The office of Mercy has been given to the Queen of heaven, Mary most Holy, as intercessor to her Son, Jesus. This is the structure of God's monarchy, that of a King and a Queen. We can see this in the Book of Esther. This is why the Rosary is so very important, especially in these latter times. As Noe had to get on the Ark to be saved, and the mosaic judeans had to be devoted to the old testament ark, so it is that true catholics have to be devoted to the Immaculate heart of Mary and the recitation of the Rosary for salvation. St. Louis De Montfort: “… many others have proved invincibly, from the sentiments of the Fathers (among others, St. Augustine, St. Ephrem, St. Cyril of Jerusalem, St. Germanus, St. John Damascene, St. Anselm, St. Bernard, St. Bernardine, St. Thomas and St. Bonaventure), that devotion to Mary is necessary to salvation, and that… it is an infallible mark of reprobation to have no esteem and love for the holy Virgin.” (True Devotion to Mary # 40) St. Louis De Montfort (+1710): “Blessed Alan de la Roche who was so deeply devoted to the Blessed Virgin had many revelations from her and we know that he confirmed the truth of these revelations by a solemn oath. Three of them stand out with special emphasis: the first, that if people fail to say the Hail Mary (the Angelic Salutation which has saved the world) out of carelessness, or because they are lukewarm, or because they hate it, this is a sign that they will probably and indeed shortly be condemned to eternal punishment.” (Secret of the Rosary, p. 45) St. Louis De Montfort (+1710): “…. there are some very sanctifying interior practices for those whom the Holy Ghost calls to high perfection. These may be expressed in four words: to do all things by Mary, with Mary, in Mary and for Mary; so that we may do them all the more perfectly by Jesus, with Jesus, in Jesus and for Jesus.” (True Devotion to Mary #257) St. Louis De Montfort, True Devotion to Mary #39: “We must not confuse devotion to the Blessed Virgin with devotions to the other saints, as if devotion to her were not far more necessary than devotion to them, and as if devotion to her were a matter of supererogation [extra special devotion].” St. Louis De Montfort (+1706): “Make for me, if you will, a new road to go to Jesus, and pave it with all the merits of the blessed, adorn it with all their heroic virtues, illuminate and embellish it with all the lights and beauties of the angels, and let all the angels and saints be there themselves, to escort, defend and sustain those who are ready to walk there; and yet in truth, I say boldly, and I repeat that I say truly, I would prefer to this new, perfect path the immaculate way of Mary.” (True Devotion to Mary #158) St. Louis De Montfort: “As there are secrets of nature by which natural operations are performed more easily, in a short time and at little cost; so are there secrets in the order of grace by which supernatural operations, such as ridding ourselves of self, filling ourselves with God, and becoming perfect, are performed more easily. The practice which I am about to disclose [of true devotion to Mary] is one of these secrets, unknown to the greater number of Christians, known even to few of the devout, and practiced and relished by a lesser number still.” (True Devotion to Mary #82) Ecclesiasticus 6:21-23 [21] How very unpleasant is wisdom to the unlearned, and the unwise will not continue with her. [22] She shall be to them as a mighty stone of trial, and they will cast her from them before it be long. [23] For the wisdom of doctrine is according to her name, and she is not manifest unto many, but with them to whom she is known, she continueth even to the sight of God. St. Louis De Montfort (+ c. 1710): “ By this practice [the True Devotion to Mary which he teaches], faithfully observed, you will give Jesus more glory in a month than by any other practice, however difficult, in many years…” (True Devotion to Mary #222) Regarding the Holy Rosary, Sister Lucia told Father Fuentes in a famous 1957 interview:
“Look, Father, the Most Holy Virgin in these last times in which we live has given a new efficacy to the recitation of the Holy Rosary. She has given this efficacy to such an extent that there is no problem, no matter how difficult it is, whether temporal or above all, spiritual, in the personal life of each one of us, of our families, of the families of the world, or of the religious communities, or even of the life of peoples and nations that cannot be solved by the Rosary. There is no problem I tell you, no matter how difficult it is, that we cannot resolve by the prayer of the Holy Rosary. With the Holy Rosary, we will save ourselves. We will sanctify ourselves. We will console Our Lord and obtain the salvation of many souls.” The Rosary >>> Ecclesiasticus 6:29-34 [29] For in the latter end thou shalt find rest in her, and she shall be turned to thy joy. [30] Then shall her fetters be a strong defence for thee, and a firm foundation, and her chain a robe of glory: [31] For in her is the beauty of life, and her bands are a healthful binding. [32] Thou shalt put her on as a robe of glory, and thou shalt set her upon thee as a crown of joy. [33] My son, if thou wilt attend to me, thou shalt learn: and if thou wilt apply thy mind, thou shalt be wise. [34] If thou wilt incline thy ear, thou shalt receive instruction: and if thou love to hear, thou shalt be wise. To speak for God on an unrevealed matter without Him revealing to one the truth in question, without His authorization, is the ultimate act of liberalism masked as "conservative and strict." It is putting one's judgment on the same level as that of God's judgment. It is rash, rooted in private judgment, and is the foundation of all heresy.
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Post by truth333 on Dec 4, 2017 20:24:31 GMT -5
Pacelli, in charity, the problem with your words, with a liberal tone, and this is how I approach everything, to many in the world, who are weak in the catholic faith or are researching to find the truth, it is better to speak diligently in a very conservative strict way, concerning God's Laws. It is never a good thing to promote the extreme and very rare salvific circumstance of an apostate. It give a false impression, as to the strictness of God's word. God did not spare Adam or the world, Adam was cast out and all nature of the world was corrupted. Its better to live faithfully in obedience rather than relying on a false notion that Jesus will give me a free pass concerning a bad life lived. This is what I see with many people that call themselves traditionalists. Always promoting and saying; "Oh, we just don't know what Jesus will do, concerning the one who died as a reprobate" i.e. some unknown mercy of God. This in fact, is a very uncharitable thing to say to anyone. Be strong, promote obedience to the law, period. If someone rejects God, that is their problem. Please remember that Jesus has been given an office, by God the Father and that is the office of a judge. And Jesus can do no other, than judge. And He will do so! Psalms 65:5 Come and see the works of God; who is terrible in his counsels over the sons of men. The office of Mercy has been given to the Queen of heaven, Mary most Holy, as intercessor to her Son, Jesus. This is the structure of God's monarchy, that of a King and a Queen. We can see this in the Book of Esther. This is why the Rosary is so very important, especially in these latter times. As Noe had to get on the Ark to be saved, and the mosaic judeans had to be devoted to the old testament ark, so it is that true catholics have to be devoted to the Immaculate heart of Mary and the recitation of the Rosary for salvation. St. Louis De Montfort: “… many others have proved invincibly, from the sentiments of the Fathers (among others, St. Augustine, St. Ephrem, St. Cyril of Jerusalem, St. Germanus, St. John Damascene, St. Anselm, St. Bernard, St. Bernardine, St. Thomas and St. Bonaventure), that devotion to Mary is necessary to salvation, and that… it is an infallible mark of reprobation to have no esteem and love for the holy Virgin.” (True Devotion to Mary # 40) St. Louis De Montfort (+1710): “Blessed Alan de la Roche who was so deeply devoted to the Blessed Virgin had many revelations from her and we know that he confirmed the truth of these revelations by a solemn oath. Three of them stand out with special emphasis: the first, that if people fail to say the Hail Mary (the Angelic Salutation which has saved the world) out of carelessness, or because they are lukewarm, or because they hate it, this is a sign that they will probably and indeed shortly be condemned to eternal punishment.” (Secret of the Rosary, p. 45) St. Louis De Montfort (+1710): “…. there are some very sanctifying interior practices for those whom the Holy Ghost calls to high perfection. These may be expressed in four words: to do all things by Mary, with Mary, in Mary and for Mary; so that we may do them all the more perfectly by Jesus, with Jesus, in Jesus and for Jesus.” (True Devotion to Mary #257) St. Louis De Montfort, True Devotion to Mary #39: “We must not confuse devotion to the Blessed Virgin with devotions to the other saints, as if devotion to her were not far more necessary than devotion to them, and as if devotion to her were a matter of supererogation [extra special devotion].” St. Louis De Montfort (+1706): “Make for me, if you will, a new road to go to Jesus, and pave it with all the merits of the blessed, adorn it with all their heroic virtues, illuminate and embellish it with all the lights and beauties of the angels, and let all the angels and saints be there themselves, to escort, defend and sustain those who are ready to walk there; and yet in truth, I say boldly, and I repeat that I say truly, I would prefer to this new, perfect path the immaculate way of Mary.” (True Devotion to Mary #158) St. Louis De Montfort: “As there are secrets of nature by which natural operations are performed more easily, in a short time and at little cost; so are there secrets in the order of grace by which supernatural operations, such as ridding ourselves of self, filling ourselves with God, and becoming perfect, are performed more easily. The practice which I am about to disclose [of true devotion to Mary] is one of these secrets, unknown to the greater number of Christians, known even to few of the devout, and practiced and relished by a lesser number still.” (True Devotion to Mary #82) Ecclesiasticus 6:21-23 [21] How very unpleasant is wisdom to the unlearned, and the unwise will not continue with her. [22] She shall be to them as a mighty stone of trial, and they will cast her from them before it be long. [23] For the wisdom of doctrine is according to her name, and she is not manifest unto many, but with them to whom she is known, she continueth even to the sight of God. St. Louis De Montfort (+ c. 1710): “ By this practice [the True Devotion to Mary which he teaches], faithfully observed, you will give Jesus more glory in a month than by any other practice, however difficult, in many years…” (True Devotion to Mary #222) Regarding the Holy Rosary, Sister Lucia told Father Fuentes in a famous 1957 interview:
“Look, Father, the Most Holy Virgin in these last times in which we live has given a new efficacy to the recitation of the Holy Rosary. She has given this efficacy to such an extent that there is no problem, no matter how difficult it is, whether temporal or above all, spiritual, in the personal life of each one of us, of our families, of the families of the world, or of the religious communities, or even of the life of peoples and nations that cannot be solved by the Rosary. There is no problem I tell you, no matter how difficult it is, that we cannot resolve by the prayer of the Holy Rosary. With the Holy Rosary, we will save ourselves. We will sanctify ourselves. We will console Our Lord and obtain the salvation of many souls.” The Rosary >>> Ecclesiasticus 6:29-34 [29] For in the latter end thou shalt find rest in her, and she shall be turned to thy joy. [30] Then shall her fetters be a strong defence for thee, and a firm foundation, and her chain a robe of glory: [31] For in her is the beauty of life, and her bands are a healthful binding. [32] Thou shalt put her on as a robe of glory, and thou shalt set her upon thee as a crown of joy. [33] My son, if thou wilt attend to me, thou shalt learn: and if thou wilt apply thy mind, thou shalt be wise. [34] If thou wilt incline thy ear, thou shalt receive instruction: and if thou love to hear, thou shalt be wise. To speak for God on an unrevealed matter without Him revealing to one the truth in question, without His authorization, is the ultimate act of liberalism masked as "conservative and strict." It is putting one's judgment on the same level as that of God's judgment. It is rash, rooted in private judgment, and is the foundation of all heresy. "To speak for God on an unrevealed matter"... If you could do me a favor, when you respond because there are a number of things spoken of, be a little more detailed, as to what you are speaking. What is the unrevealed matter?
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Post by Pacelli on Dec 4, 2017 22:01:53 GMT -5
Isn't it obvious from the discussion? It is what the entire thread is about. God has not revealed to us whether Hefner is damned.
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Post by truth333 on Dec 4, 2017 23:46:09 GMT -5
Isn't it obvious from the discussion? It is what the entire thread is about. God has not revealed to us whether Hefner is damned. Then according to your personal private position, church teaching is superfluous, and that we should presume upon some unknown mercy of God. Honestly, what do we need hell for? I will leave it at that.
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Post by Andrew on Dec 5, 2017 0:11:27 GMT -5
Isn't it obvious from the discussion? It is what the entire thread is about. God has not revealed to us whether Hefner is damned. Then according to your personal private position, church teaching is superfluous, and that we should presume upon some unknown mercy of God. Honestly, what do we need hell for? I will leave it at that. Tanquerrey, Augustine, Ligouri all write authoritatively on potential deathbed conversions. But I think the Dialogue of Catherine Sienna gives a good glimpse that the mercy of God is indeed willing and ready to forgive ANY and ALL sin if one were to trully repent even if one delay conversion til the very, very end. That is why even if a person is rejected an ecclesiastical burial you can and are encouraged to pray for them. But it is left to the church to decide. By no means is sin or delay anything but repugnant but we must not be scared of the TRUTH! God would and does FORGIVE. It is the basis of the Sacred Hearts teaching to Margaret Mary. Catechism 101
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Post by Andrew on Dec 5, 2017 0:27:25 GMT -5
That is why the stupid vatican II church tries to ruin everything. Watering down sin and sending souls to hell, but as a knee jerk reaction making others reject that watering down by making God out to be an unforgiving Jewish bas*&^%. The True church shares in God's attributes, knows justice, knows mercy, knows peace. The church has chosen to reveal who is in Heaven( a true pope cannonizing) but is somewhat reticent of revealing specifically who is damned. There aree some fascinating stories, St. Bruno's conversion takes the cake. But ONLY the church specifies.
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