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Post by micah1199 on Oct 1, 2017 18:35:07 GMT -5
The confessional is always open. Prayer is always available. Why do some one day choose to pray and others do not? This is a great mystery and grace of God. All of us who read this website and who are traditional Catholics have received much more grace than the majority of men today. It should lead us to greater humiliation, contrition, and generosity in God’s service due to our own wretched return for the abundance given. We all have probably been given more grace than Hefner. We should all reflect on that to lead us to greater love of God and Our Lady.
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Post by micah1199 on Oct 1, 2017 18:38:01 GMT -5
I mentioned the above to lead us all to greater love and gratitude and never to despair as God and Our Lady do not will or desire our despair, but loving penance.
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Post by Pacelli on Oct 1, 2017 19:20:00 GMT -5
So is it a sin to believe confidently that Judas Iscariot is damned? And say so? In this case, I believe it is justified, since we can rely on Sacred Scrpiture, therefore it is a revealed truth. Our Lord said: If it had been better for Judas to not be born, logically, he could not be in Heaven, or even Purgatory which is merely temporary prior to Heaven. If he were in either place, it could only be good for him that he was born. Such a statement would only make sense for one eternally damned. The fathers and theologians of the Church taught the same, so this is more than a mere opinion, making it safe to hold.
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Post by Voxxkowalski on Oct 1, 2017 20:10:27 GMT -5
So is it a sin to believe confidently that Judas Iscariot is damned? And say so? In this case, I believe it is justified, since we can rely on Sacred Scrpiture, therefore it is a revealed truth. Our Lord said: If it had been better for Judas to not be born, logically, he could not be in Heaven, or even Purgatory which is merely temporary prior to Heaven. If he were in either place, it could only be good for him that he was born. Such a statement would only make sense for one eternally damned. The fathers and theologians of the Church taught the same, so this is more than a mere opinion, making it safe to hold. so what of this scriptural revelation? Can I not hold...with no evidence available to the contrary that the serial rapist...pornographer..murderer of millions of souls Hugh Hefner is in hell...and publically say so?
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Post by Pacelli on Oct 1, 2017 21:21:38 GMT -5
In this case, I believe it is justified, since we can rely on Sacred Scrpiture, therefore it is a revealed truth. Our Lord said: If it had been better for Judas to not be born, logically, he could not be in Heaven, or even Purgatory which is merely temporary prior to Heaven. If he were in either place, it could only be good for him that he was born. Such a statement would only make sense for one eternally damned. The fathers and theologians of the Church taught the same, so this is more than a mere opinion, making it safe to hold. so what of this scriptural revelation? Can I not hold...with no evidence available to the contrary that the serial rapist...pornographer..murderer of millions of souls Hugh Hefner is in hell...and publically say so? As I said above, you don't know what happened prior to his death. There is no evidence that he repented, so it looks bad for him, but that fact is that none of us can say with certainty that any sinner at the hour of death did not repent, unless that knowledge is revealed to us by God. Although it is highly unlikely that Hefner repented, the fact is that we simply don't know, so why go there? The scripture passage you cited deals with those who are unrepentant, not those who repent, even at the hour of death. Remember the parable of the workingman, our Lord made this clear.
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Post by Voxxkowalski on Oct 1, 2017 21:53:19 GMT -5
The point Im trying to make that makes me doubt your position is as black and what as it seems is that using that position..we can't really fault JP2 for asserting the possibility that Hell is empty.
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Post by Pacelli on Oct 1, 2017 22:29:40 GMT -5
The point Im trying to make that makes me doubt your position is as black and what as it seems is that using that position..we can't really fault JP2 for asserting the possibility that Hell is empty. Not knowing who is there is not an argument that it's empty. We know that many follow the path of damnation, and that few are saved. We just don't know who is where (Heaven, Hell or Purgatory) once they die, unless it is revealed or unless a Pope infallibly canonizes someone.
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Post by Marya Dabrowski on Oct 3, 2017 22:20:36 GMT -5
If Hugh Hefner's not in hell then I guess nobody is.
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Post by Voxxkowalski on Oct 4, 2017 8:34:47 GMT -5
If Hugh Hefner's not in hell then I guess nobody is. Thats the statement I made on fb that got the Good Father involved. I think tha same thing about stalin.
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Post by Marya Dabrowski on Oct 4, 2017 18:58:45 GMT -5
If Hugh Hefner's not in hell then I guess nobody is. Thats the statement I made on fb that got the Good Father involved. I think tha same thing about stalin. Think how many millions of boys and men this man helped to commit mortal sins.
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Post by Voxxkowalski on Oct 5, 2017 8:52:06 GMT -5
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Post by Marya Dabrowski on Oct 5, 2017 10:34:49 GMT -5
St. Teresa of Avila
"I had the greatest sorrow for the many souls that condemned themselves to Hell, especially those Lutherans. […] I saw souls falling into hell like snowflakes."
St. Augustine
"As a man lives, so shall he die."
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Post by truth333 on Dec 3, 2017 12:15:11 GMT -5
" And whilst they were eating, he said: Amen I say to you, that one of you is about to betray me. [22] And they being very much troubled, began every one to say: Is it I, Lord? [23] But he answering, said: He that dippeth his hand with me in the dish, he shall betray me. [24] The Son of man indeed goeth, as it is written of him: but woe to that man by whom the Son of man shall be betrayed: it were better for him, if that man had not been born. [25] And Judas that betrayed him, answering, said: Is it I, Rabbi? He saith to him: Thou hast said it." It is my understanding that the knowledge of Judas's eternal fate is attributed to Scripture. In regards to anyone else, it can only be known by Divine revelation. We do not know who is in Hell nor Heaven unless by Eccesiastically approved revelation. But dont we safely draw many inferences positively from Church teachings on scripture. 1cor6:9
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Post by truth333 on Dec 3, 2017 13:32:24 GMT -5
Both, scripture and catholic teaching, say that a man who dies, alienated from the catholic church and or in a state of mortal sin, in the external forum, does go to hell. A man who has demonstrated, by external forum, a violation of God's law, and has died without proving to the contrary, that he has repented and amended, then by that fact, that man is in hell, by his own doing. Canon 2200.2, 1917 Code: “Positing an external violation of the law, malice in the external forum is presumed until the contrary is proven.” Concerning judging, God tells us not to judge hypocritically, He never said that catholics could not judge. Luke 6:37-42 [37] Judge not, and you shall not be judged. Condemn not, and you shall not be condemned. Forgive, and you shall be forgiven. [38] Give, and it shall be given to you: good measure and pressed down and shaken together and running over shall they give into your bosom. For with the same measure that you shall mete withal, it shall be measured to you again. [39] And he spoke also to them a similitude: Can the blind lead the blind? do they not both fall into the ditch? [40] The disciple is not above his master: but every one shall be perfect, if he be as his master. [41] And why seest thou the mote in thy brother's eye: but the beam that is in thy own eye thou considerest not? [42] Or how canst thou say to thy brother: Brother, let me pull the mote out of thy eye, when thou thyself seest not the beam in thy own eye? Hypocrite, cast first the beam out of thy own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to take out the mote from thy brother's eye. To further clarify these verses, a catholic, if he is going to help an alcoholic, then that catholic better not be one, who abuses alcohol, also. It only makes perfect sense. Holy scripture and the catholic church teaches that a catholic must judge. 1 Thessalonians 5:14, 21-22 [14] And we beseech you, brethren, rebuke the unquiet, comfort the feeble minded, support the weak, be patient towards all men. [15] See that none render evil for evil to any man; but ever follow that which is good towards each other, and towards all men. … [21] But prove all things; hold fast that which is good. [22] From all appearance of evil refrain yourselves. 1 Corinthians 5:11-13 [11] But now I have written to you, not to keep company, if any man that is named a brother, be a fornicator, or covetous, or a server of idols, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner: with such a one, not so much as to eat. [12] For what have I to do to judge them that are without? Do not you judge them that are within? [13] For them that are without, God will judge. Put away the evil one from among yourselves. The Catholic spiritual works of mercy are: To instruct the ignorant; To counsel the doubtful; To admonish sinners; All of these truths that have been provided, deal with actions in the external forum, good or bad. And God has said that a man can know, and must judge these things, as good or bad and what will happen to those of bad fruit. Matthew 7:16-20 [16] By their fruits you shall know them. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? [17] Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit, and the evil tree bringeth forth evil fruit. [18] A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can an evil tree bring forth good fruit. [19] Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit, shall be cut down, and shall be cast into the fire. [20] Wherefore by their fruits you shall know them. The catholic church has clearly taught that those outside the catholic church cannot be saved, they are cast into the fire. Pope Eugene IV, Council of Florence, “Cantate Domino,” 1441, ex cathedra: “ The Holy Roman Church firmly believes, professes and preaches that all those who are outside the Catholic Church, not only pagans but also Jews or heretics and schismatics, cannot share in eternal life and will go into the everlasting fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels, unless they are joined to the Church before the end of their lives… and that nobody can be saved, no matter how much he has given away in alms and even if he has shed blood in the name of Christ, unless he has persevered in the bosom and unity of the Catholic Church.” I personally wish that all men would come into the catholic church but the church teaches that few are saved. Biblical history has demonstrated consistently, that few are saved. Do to sin, God always faithfully punishes [destroys] the majority, reducing His church to a remnant, those who held the faith inviolate. Matthew 22:14 For many are called, but few are chosen. Exodus 23:2 Thou shalt not follow the multitude to do evil: neither shalt thou yield in judgment, to the opinion of the most part, to stray from the truth. Saint Leonard of Port Maurice [A.D. 1676-1751], on the fewness of the saved: “After consulting all the theologians and making a diligent study of the matter, he [Suarez] wrote, ‘The most common sentiment which is held is that, among Christians [Catholics], there are more damned souls than predestined souls.’ Add the authority of the Greek and Latin Fathers to that of the theologians, and you will find that almost all of them say the same thing. This is the sentiment of Saint Theodore, Saint Basil, Saint Ephrem, Saint John Chrysostom. What is more, according to Baronius it was a common opinion among the Greek Fathers that this truth was expressly revealed to Saint Simeon Stylites and that after this revelation, it was to secure his salvation that he decided to live standing on top of a pillar for forty years, exposed to the weather, a model of penance and holiness for everyone. Now let us consult the Latin Fathers. You will hear Saint Gregory saying clearly, “Many attain to faith, but few to the heavenly kingdom.” Saint Anselm declares, “There are few who are saved.” Saint Augustine states even more clearly, “Therefore, few are saved in comparison to those who are damned.” The most terrifying, however, is Saint Jerome. At the end of his life, in the presence of his disciples, he spoke these dreadful words: “Out of one hundred thousand people whose lives have always been bad, you will find barely one who is worthy of indulgence.” Saint Anselm: “If thou wouldst be certain of being in the number of the elect, strive to be one of the few, not of the many. And if thou wouldst be quite sure of thy salvation, strive to be among the fewest of the few… Do not follow the great majority of mankind, but follow those who enter upon the narrow way, who renounce the world, who give themselves to prayer, and who never relax their efforts by day or by night, that they may attain everlasting blessedness.” (Fr. Martin Von Cochem, The Four Last Things, p. 221.)
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Post by Pacelli on Dec 3, 2017 16:28:25 GMT -5
Both, scripture and catholic teaching, say that a man who dies, alienated from the catholic church and or in a state of mortal sin, in the external forum, does go to hell. A man who has demonstrated, by external forum, a violation of God's law, and has died without proving to the contrary, that he has repented and amended, then by that fact, that man is in hell, by his own doing. Canon 2200.2, 1917 Code: “Positing an external violation of the law, malice in the external forum is presumed until the contrary is proven.” Concerning judging, God tells us not to judge hypocritically, He never said that catholics could not judge. Luke 6:37-42 [37] Judge not, and you shall not be judged. Condemn not, and you shall not be condemned. Forgive, and you shall be forgiven. [38] Give, and it shall be given to you: good measure and pressed down and shaken together and running over shall they give into your bosom. For with the same measure that you shall mete withal, it shall be measured to you again. [39] And he spoke also to them a similitude: Can the blind lead the blind? do they not both fall into the ditch? [40] The disciple is not above his master: but every one shall be perfect, if he be as his master. [41] And why seest thou the mote in thy brother's eye: but the beam that is in thy own eye thou considerest not? [42] Or how canst thou say to thy brother: Brother, let me pull the mote out of thy eye, when thou thyself seest not the beam in thy own eye? Hypocrite, cast first the beam out of thy own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to take out the mote from thy brother's eye. To further clarify these verses, a catholic, if he is going to help an alcoholic, then that catholic better not be one, who abuses alcohol, also. It only makes perfect sense. Holy scripture and the catholic church teaches that a catholic must judge. 1 Thessalonians 5:14, 21-22 [14] And we beseech you, brethren, rebuke the unquiet, comfort the feeble minded, support the weak, be patient towards all men. [15] See that none render evil for evil to any man; but ever follow that which is good towards each other, and towards all men. … [21] But prove all things; hold fast that which is good. [22] From all appearance of evil refrain yourselves. 1 Corinthians 5:11-13 [11] But now I have written to you, not to keep company, if any man that is named a brother, be a fornicator, or covetous, or a server of idols, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner: with such a one, not so much as to eat. [12] For what have I to do to judge them that are without? Do not you judge them that are within? [13] For them that are without, God will judge. Put away the evil one from among yourselves. The Catholic spiritual works of mercy are: To instruct the ignorant; To counsel the doubtful; To admonish sinners; All of these truths that have been provided, deal with actions in the external forum, good or bad. And God has said that a man can know, and must judge these things, as good or bad and what will happen to those of bad fruit. Matthew 7:16-20 [16] By their fruits you shall know them. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles? [17] Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit, and the evil tree bringeth forth evil fruit. [18] A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can an evil tree bring forth good fruit. [19] Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit, shall be cut down, and shall be cast into the fire. [20] Wherefore by their fruits you shall know them. The catholic church has clearly taught that those outside the catholic church cannot be saved, they are cast into the fire. Pope Eugene IV, Council of Florence, “Cantate Domino,” 1441, ex cathedra: “ The Holy Roman Church firmly believes, professes and preaches that all those who are outside the Catholic Church, not only pagans but also Jews or heretics and schismatics, cannot share in eternal life and will go into the everlasting fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels, unless they are joined to the Church before the end of their lives… and that nobody can be saved, no matter how much he has given away in alms and even if he has shed blood in the name of Christ, unless he has persevered in the bosom and unity of the Catholic Church.” I personally wish that all men would come into the catholic church but the church teaches that few are saved. Biblical history has demonstrated consistently, that few are saved. Do to sin, God always faithfully punishes [destroys] the majority, reducing His church to a remnant, those who held the faith inviolate. Matthew 22:14 For many are called, but few are chosen. Exodus 23:2 Thou shalt not follow the multitude to do evil: neither shalt thou yield in judgment, to the opinion of the most part, to stray from the truth. Saint Leonard of Port Maurice [A.D. 1676-1751], on the fewness of the saved: “After consulting all the theologians and making a diligent study of the matter, he [Suarez] wrote, ‘The most common sentiment which is held is that, among Christians [Catholics], there are more damned souls than predestined souls.’ Add the authority of the Greek and Latin Fathers to that of the theologians, and you will find that almost all of them say the same thing. This is the sentiment of Saint Theodore, Saint Basil, Saint Ephrem, Saint John Chrysostom. What is more, according to Baronius it was a common opinion among the Greek Fathers that this truth was expressly revealed to Saint Simeon Stylites and that after this revelation, it was to secure his salvation that he decided to live standing on top of a pillar for forty years, exposed to the weather, a model of penance and holiness for everyone. Now let us consult the Latin Fathers. You will hear Saint Gregory saying clearly, “Many attain to faith, but few to the heavenly kingdom.” Saint Anselm declares, “There are few who are saved.” Saint Augustine states even more clearly, “Therefore, few are saved in comparison to those who are damned.” The most terrifying, however, is Saint Jerome. At the end of his life, in the presence of his disciples, he spoke these dreadful words: “Out of one hundred thousand people whose lives have always been bad, you will find barely one who is worthy of indulgence.” Saint Anselm: “If thou wouldst be certain of being in the number of the elect, strive to be one of the few, not of the many. And if thou wouldst be quite sure of thy salvation, strive to be among the fewest of the few… Do not follow the great majority of mankind, but follow those who enter upon the narrow way, who renounce the world, who give themselves to prayer, and who never relax their efforts by day or by night, that they may attain everlasting blessedness.” (Fr. Martin Von Cochem, The Four Last Things, p. 221.) All true, but irrelevant to this thread.
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