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Post by Deleted on Nov 30, 2016 12:17:14 GMT -5
I have read and seen loads of info on Traditional Independent Priests as confessors, but haven't seen or come across much info on using pre-Vatican II Novus Ordo Priests for confession.
Upon finding my way back to the Catholic Church, I sought out pre-Vatican II Novus Ordo Priests for confession (at that point I knew nothing regarding Traditional Independent Priests anyhow). The Priest I wanted to go to for confession was ordained in 1951 and is the Priest where I eventually ended up going to the Indult Mass. He was in the hospital so I chose a Novus Ordo Priest who was ordained in 1959. It just happened to be Lent and I called the rectory and made an appointment with the Priest. It was a general confession and conducted "face to face" in the Priest's office. I guess the Priest gathered I was "old school" as he told me that I "needed to get up-to-date" and he gave me a copy of a new Catechism (which I threw in the nearest garbage can). (Subsequently, I went to the Ukranian Church for confession and the Priest was very, very hard to understand and absolved me in Ukranian). I then began going to confession on a regular basis to the Priest ordained in 1951 as I was attending his "Insult" Mass (every time I attempt to type "Indult" anymore, I type "Insult" instead)!! At that point in time, I knew nothing regarding Priests and granting of faculties. I have since checked and they both were granted faculties in their current Diocese; however, the Priest ordained in 1951 ("Indult" Priest) spent some time away from his Diocese where faculties were granted and was in Florida for awhile and then returned here to his home Diocese.
Since my dilemma with the "Indult" Mass and the Priest, I don't care to go there for confession anymore. I prefer to go to the Novus Ordo Priest ordained in 1959 instead. I have since been back to him for confessions when my Priest was sick and the confession was in the "box" and not "face to face" like the first time. It was only the one time I went to him for a general confession that he told me I "needed to get up-to-date" and gave me the new Catechism. Was he being "imposing"? Do you think it is ok to continue to go to him for confession?
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Post by Clotilde on Nov 30, 2016 13:08:18 GMT -5
General confessions are great but not necessary and there is no law saying one must make one.
With that in mind, many priests are very confused by the brain washing and indoctrination of Vatican II. These priests really are trying to be good by promoting the ideas and thinking of what they mistakenly believe is the Church. Take that into consideration.
Secondly, any time you go to a true priest who is mixed up with the Novus Ordo sect, you will have to first weigh your options. I would not recommend doing a general confession to this one, or to any one until you have a feel for their positions. Just find someone else when, or if, you want to do that.
When going to these priests, try to remember the points above and that it is entirely possible you will have to politely let some of it go in one ear and out the other. The ONLY thing that matters is that you are absolved, it doesn't matter what he says before or after, or even if he is an undeclared heretic. It doesn't matter what language or if it is face to face.
One day soon, these options are going to run out and we will not have the option of going to these older priests. We may go longer or not at all without this balm for the soul. Take advantage of it while you can but wear your anti-modernist armor into the confessional and hold out for the absolution.
I have gone to validly ordained older priests for many years, and while some of them do have a modern taint, their training always shows up and it has been to my spiritual benefit for many years. Other Catholics in the same situation would attest to the same. If there is an oasis when you are dying of thirst, no matter how small, you take a drink and fill your canteen.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 30, 2016 14:08:55 GMT -5
General confessions are great but not necessary and there is no law saying one must make one. With that in mind, many priests are very confused by the brain washing and indoctrination of Vatican II. These priests really are trying to be good by promoting the ideas and thinking of what they mistakenly believe is the Church. Take that into consideration. Secondly, any time you go to a true priest who is mixed up with the Novus Ordo sect, you will have to first weigh your options. I would not recommend doing a general confession to this one, or to any one until you have a feel for their positions. Just find someone else when, or if, you want to do that. When going to these priests, try to remember the points above and that it is entirely possible you will have to politely let some of it go in one ear and out the other. The ONLY thing that matters is that you are absolved, it doesn't matter what he says before or after, or even if he is an undeclared heretic. It doesn't matter what language or if it is face to face. One day soon, these options are going to run out and we will not have the option of going to these older priests. We may go longer or not at all without this balm for the soul. Take advantage of it while you can but wear your anti-modernist armor into the confessional and hold out for the absolution. I have gone to validly ordained older priests for many years, and while some of them do have a modern taint, their training always shows up and it has been to my spiritual benefit for many years. Other Catholics in the same situation would attest to the same. If there is an oasis when you are dying of thirst, no matter how small, you take a drink and fill your canteen. Clotilde - Thanks very much for the reply! I did not realize that "general" confessions were not required, or about the Priest being an undeclared heretic, etc. I will keep the " anti-modernist armor" on! In the 1980's and 1990's when I was trying to return to the Church and couldn't understand what had happened to the Church of my youth, I went from Church to Church and to young Novus Ordo Priests seeking help and got zero, except more confused than I already was. I would go to confessions to young N.O. Priests and got nothing, zilch. I kept wondering what happened to the power of the Priesthood. I would talk with young N.O. Priests and all they ever said was that I needed "counseling" with a therapist. One young N.O. Priest even sent me to a Protestant Pastoral Counselor!! After a few years of seeking absolution and not being able to obtain it. I gave up and quit going to the N.O. I just figured I was doomed. The Priests couldn't help me and the counselors the Priests would send me to didn't help me. It wasn't until 2 yrs ago when I questioned if Francis was even Catholic that I was led to a website that explained the Vatican II mess and what had happened to the Church of my youth. It wasn't until I went to a pre-Vatican II Priest for confession and received a true absolution did I find the medicine my soul was seeking all those years in the Vatican II false religion and was unable to obtain!! (Just my experience...)
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Post by Pacelli on Nov 30, 2016 16:47:05 GMT -5
Veronica,
Clotilde's response sums up my thoughts on this. The only thing I would urge you to do is make sure the priest is validly ordained before going to confession to him. You can find this out in many ways, and in this day and age, an internet search will often get you there, but there other other ways such as the Catholic Directory, or the direct approach by simply asking him.
Paul VI approved his rites of ordination in 1968, but the implementation of his novel new rites did not happen everywere at the same time, so cases close to that time should be investigated more thoroughly.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 30, 2016 17:40:22 GMT -5
Veronica, Clotilde's response sums up my thoughts on this. The only thing I would urge you to do is make sure the priest is validly ordained before going to confession to him. You can find this out in many ways, and in this day and age, an internet search will often get you there, but there other other ways such as the Catholic Directory, or the direct approach by simply asking him. Paul VI approved his rites of ordination in 1968, but the implementation of his novel new rites did not happen everywere at the same time, so cases close to that time should be investigated more thoroughly. Thanks Pacelli. I check with the Diocese here for ordination dates of Priests. Our Diocese has a list of all Priests and their ordination dates online, or I call the Diocese directly and ask them for the date. Question: Do I need to verify where the Priests were granted faculties to go to them for confession??
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Post by Pacelli on Nov 30, 2016 17:45:00 GMT -5
Veronica, Clotilde's response sums up my thoughts on this. The only thing I would urge you to do is make sure the priest is validly ordained before going to confession to him. You can find this out in many ways, and in this day and age, an internet search will often get you there, but there other other ways such as the Catholic Directory, or the direct approach by simply asking him. Paul VI approved his rites of ordination in 1968, but the implementation of his novel new rites did not happen everywere at the same time, so cases close to that time should be investigated more thoroughly. Thanks Pacelli. I check with the Diocese here for ordination dates of Priests. Our Diocese has a list of all Priests and their ordination dates online, or I call the Diocese directly and ask them for the date. Question: Do I need to verify where the Priests were granted faculties to go to them for confession?? Wow, that makes things easy! 😀 In my opinion, in the case of priests hearing confessions in this circumstance, (regular diocesan priests hearing confessions in their own diocese), even if the faculties are not present, the jurisdiction would be supplied due to common error.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 30, 2016 18:11:16 GMT -5
Question: What are the proper words the Priest should use for absolution? Can there be any deviation in the words used?
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Post by Pacelli on Nov 30, 2016 18:20:20 GMT -5
Question: What are the proper words the Priest should use for absolution? Can there be any deviation in the words used? This is from the Catechism of the Council of Trent, teaching what is universally taught on the form of the sacrament of Penance (confession):
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Post by Deleted on Nov 30, 2016 22:34:59 GMT -5
Question: In the 1990's when I was going to confession in the Novus Ordo with young Priests, I was given a "penance" of "Go sit in the pew and let God love you". I was thoroughly baffled by this Penance at the time and still am whenever I think of it. Was this a proper Penance? When I think of Penance I think of saying "Our Fathers" or "Hail Mary's", etc. which the pre-Vatican II Priests give as Penance.
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Post by Clotilde on Dec 1, 2016 2:04:07 GMT -5
Question: In the 1990's when I was going to confession in the Novus Ordo with young Priests, I was given a "penance" of "Go sit in the pew and let God love you". I was thoroughly baffled by this Penance at the time and still am whenever I think of it. Was this a proper Penance? When I think of Penance I think of saying "Our Fathers" or "Hail Mary's", etc. which the pre-Vatican II Priests give as Penance. These "priests" did not have the same formation as those in the past, so that is one problem. Even if they have come out somewhat conservative, they are dealing with Catholics that can't recite a Hail Mary, they don't own prayer books, and they wouldn't know what was meant by spiritual reading. They are so bankrupt of Catholic sense that they probably couldn't read such books and the very wording of prayers is confusing and meaningless to them. So, if that is the majority of your penitents, you have almost nothing to work with. It probably wasn't the greatest penance, but to do it in submission, even if you thought it was dumb, probably gained you graces. A properly trained priest gives a fitting penance and understands its purpose. Novus Ordo "priests" are a confused lot. When I was in the Novus Ordo, I was endlessly stressed out before, after, and during my confessions. I suspect this is the case for many people.
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Post by Voxxkowalski on Dec 1, 2016 6:07:02 GMT -5
The Ruthenian and Ukrainian priests at my Peashes are excellent confessors. Although my recent ukrainian priest only asks if Im soory for my sins instead of asking for a formal act of contrition. He always gives the formal absolution. Is this ok..I assume it is because I do show contrition when I answer yes Father I am very sorry
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Post by Deleted on Dec 1, 2016 7:41:34 GMT -5
Question: In the 1990's when I was going to confession in the Novus Ordo with young Priests, I was given a "penance" of "Go sit in the pew and let God love you". I was thoroughly baffled by this Penance at the time and still am whenever I think of it. Was this a proper Penance? When I think of Penance I think of saying "Our Fathers" or "Hail Mary's", etc. which the pre-Vatican II Priests give as Penance. These "priests" did not have the same formation as those in the past, so that is one problem. Even if they have come out somewhat conservative, they are dealing with Catholics that can't recite a Hail Mary, they don't own prayer books, and they wouldn't know what was meant by spiritual reading. They are so bankrupt of Catholic sense that they probably couldn't read such books and the very wording of prayers is confusing and meaningless to them. So, if that is the majority of your penitents, you have almost nothing to work with. It probably wasn't the greatest penance, but to do it in submission, even if you thought it was dumb, probably gained you graces. A properly trained priest gives a fitting penance and understands its purpose. Novus Ordo "priests" are a confused lot. When I was in the Novus Ordo, I was endlessly stressed out before, after, and during my confessions. I suspect this is the case for many people. Clotilde- I agree wholeheartedly with you that Novus Ordo "priests are a confused lot"! In my opinion they are little more than glorified social workers, who when approached for spiritual help, send the people off to pastoral counselors. I used to think it was because they didn't want to be bothered, but now I believe it is because they don't possess the power of the priesthood and they don't know what else to do. I have friends that grew up with the Latin Mass and go to the Novus Ordo and have no problems with it or the Priests. When I tried to return to the Church in the '80's and again in the '90's all I got was mass confusion out of the Novus Ordo and the Priests. Because I had so many Novus Ordo friends who were content with the New Mass and liked it, I felt the problem was with me as I was so dillusioned and repulsed by the whole New Mass and the Novus Ordo Priests. I chalk it all up as a learning experience that I needed to experience to get me where I am today. (BTW - I still have Novus Ordo friends, I accept them as they are and where they are as I know I can't change them. I just share my experiences with them if they are interested in hearing them).
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Post by RitaMarita on Dec 1, 2016 7:55:21 GMT -5
These "priests" did not have the same formation as those in the past, so that is one problem. Even if they have come out somewhat conservative, they are dealing with Catholics that can't recite a Hail Mary, they don't own prayer books, and they wouldn't know what was meant by spiritual reading. They are so bankrupt of Catholic sense that they probably couldn't read such books and the very wording of prayers is confusing and meaningless to them. So, if that is the majority of your penitents, you have almost nothing to work with. It probably wasn't the greatest penance, but to do it in submission, even if you thought it was dumb, probably gained you graces. A properly trained priest gives a fitting penance and understands its purpose. Novus Ordo "priests" are a confused lot. When I was in the Novus Ordo, I was endlessly stressed out before, after, and during my confessions. I suspect this is the case for many people. Clotilde- I agree wholeheartedly with you that Novus Ordo "priests are a confused lot"! In my opinion they are little more than glorified social workers, who when approached for spiritual help, send the people off to pastoral counselors. I used to think it was because they didn't want to be bothered, but now I believe it is because they don't possess the power of the priesthood and they don't know what else to do. I have friends that grew up with the Latin Mass and go to the Novus Ordo and have no problems with it or the Priests. When I tried to return to the Church in the '80's and again in the '90's all I got was mass confusion out of the Novus Ordo and the Priests. Because I had so many Novus Ordo friends who were content with the New Mass and liked it, I felt the problem was with me as I was so dillusioned and repulsed by the whole New Mass and the Novus Ordo Priests. I chalk it all up as a learning experience that I needed to experience to get me where I am today. Veronica, May I ask where you live? Maybe then we could all pull our sources together and find you a good place to receive the Sacraments. You are on the right track! Keep it up! God bless! Rita
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Post by RitaMarita on Dec 1, 2016 7:57:38 GMT -5
The Ruthenian and Ukrainian priests at my Peashes are excellent confessors. Although my recent ukrainian priest only asks if Im soory for my sins instead of asking for a formal act of contrition. He always gives the formal absolution. Is this ok..I assume it is because I do show contrition when I answer yes Father I am very sorry Saying that you are sorry is technically a form of contrition. Definitely not as formal, but it should still be legitimate... One traditional priest I know expects people to pray the formal act of contrition while he gives the formal absolution. This really confused me at first because I was not used to it. I guess that everyone has slightly different methods...
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Post by Deleted on Dec 1, 2016 8:25:05 GMT -5
Clotilde- I agree wholeheartedly with you that Novus Ordo "priests are a confused lot"! In my opinion they are little more than glorified social workers, who when approached for spiritual help, send the people off to pastoral counselors. I used to think it was because they didn't want to be bothered, but now I believe it is because they don't possess the power of the priesthood and they don't know what else to do. I have friends that grew up with the Latin Mass and go to the Novus Ordo and have no problems with it or the Priests. When I tried to return to the Church in the '80's and again in the '90's all I got was mass confusion out of the Novus Ordo and the Priests. Because I had so many Novus Ordo friends who were content with the New Mass and liked it, I felt the problem was with me as I was so dillusioned and repulsed by the whole New Mass and the Novus Ordo Priests. I chalk it all up as a learning experience that I needed to experience to get me where I am today. Veronica, May I ask where you live? Maybe then we could all pull our sources together and find you a good place to receive the Sacraments. You are on the right track! Keep it up! God bless! Rita Rita, I live on the east coast. I am not comfortable sharing what City or State on the forum. If there are places on the east coast to receive Sacraments and it is not too much of a chore for a list, I would be open to looking at them. Thank you for your encouraging words! Veronica
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