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Post by kim on Oct 20, 2017 17:10:53 GMT -5
Assuming most Eastern Catholics are NOT sedevacantists, I'm surprised none of them have signed the Filial Correction of Francis regarding his Amoris Laetitia document. Are they chicken or do you think they just agree with it? The Orthodox allows you 3 strikes and your out on the marriage thing. Do you think many Eastern Catholics lean toward that understanding of marriage? Discovered all this perusing the Byzantine Forums which for some reason I can't seem to log into. www.byzcath.org/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/417485/eastern-catholics-and-recent-correction-of-pope-francis#Post417485
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Post by Clotilde on Oct 20, 2017 22:21:40 GMT -5
Quite honestly, Eastern Catholics today are like the type of people who think with their heart. I don't think they pay as much attention to Rome as Latin rite Catholics. Their spirituality is different, and so is their approach to theology.
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Post by Voxxkowalski on Oct 20, 2017 23:49:43 GMT -5
I found all of the byz cath forums to be insipid and revolting. They are infected to the gills with liberalism.
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Post by Voxxkowalski on Oct 20, 2017 23:52:31 GMT -5
I keep trying to warn you kim...just go to the DL...enjoy some parish life. But avoid the lay outreaches and armchair theologians. Forums...adult classes bible studys etc.
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Post by kim on Oct 21, 2017 5:51:35 GMT -5
I found all of the byz cath forums to be insipid and revolting. They are infected to the gills with liberalism. Well there's one devout member there who is incensed that no Byz. Caths have signed. Do you think a typical E. Catholic priest would let a divorced and civilly remarried Catholic take Communion? One poster states: Greek-Catholic (Melkite) bishops have. in many cases, continued to quietly grant ecclesiastic divorces and permission to remarry. I know, because as a parish priest I saw them. Yes, we are in communion with the Maronite, Chaldean, and Roman Churches etc, but it is communion of love and respect but not subservience. I have the greatest respect for the Roman tradition of the Church - so much respect in fact, that I don't believe that they should be alllowed to impose and thus impoverish the other traditions of the Church. Once again, "primus inter pares" not "Roma uber alles." We must continue tp stand firm in love as we have on the question of married priests. And another poster responds: This seems contradictory to me. If you were not subservient, there would be no need for your bishops to "quietly" grant ecclesiastic divorces and permission to remarry. Doing such things "quietly" indicates you are still afraid of the Boss. Likewise, the Melkite liturgy always commemorates the Pope. In the Byzantine liturgical tradition, outside of hierarchical divine liturgy, one only does this for the local primate and ruling bishop. That's a very clear indication you believe the Pope has jurisdiction over you.
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Post by kim on Oct 21, 2017 6:04:07 GMT -5
Well I guess in the end, an E. Catholic parish is a lot like a Novus Ordo parish---conservatives versus liberals. Hopefully they are at least still strict on the abortion and homosexual issues.
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Post by Voxxkowalski on Oct 21, 2017 8:38:22 GMT -5
You see as clotilde pointed out...this is the attitudinal difference between East and West. I go to Church for Sacraments. Maybe a coffee social...Perogie sale...chinese auction etc. Thats it. I dont wish to know what the personal theological positions of priests and parishoners are...if Ciaphas can be a valid high priest...then (unless an improper rite of ordination was used) father so and sos personal views are unimportant. God is the reason for Church...not me. Its where and the only place where we find Christ truly present in all that entails.
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Post by wenceslav on Oct 21, 2017 8:59:34 GMT -5
But Vox,
With all due respect, what if the priest’s personal theological views transcend into the sermon. I.e. praying for the intercession of non-Catholic “saints”, ecumenism etc. Happens a lot I’m afraid. Surely not something you would want to expose your family to especially those uneducated in the Faith.
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Post by kim on Oct 21, 2017 10:28:12 GMT -5
I left a pretty conservative Novus Ordo parish with a conservative priest; however it had its share of pro-aborts and pro-sodomites. I left only because of what I learned about the Novus Ordo and all the new rites and their possible invalidity and I only learned all that because Francis has been such an ass-hat.
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If I commit myself to this church and the priest does or says something crazy like have a homosexual Mass, it will break my heart. I don't really want to go back to the TLM.
I guess I'll just muddle along as best I can there,hope for the best and avoid the theological talks as Vox suggested.
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Post by Pacelli on Oct 21, 2017 11:20:08 GMT -5
Kim wrote:
Thr same can be said about the remaining Roman rite bishops. Let's face it the entire Catholic hierarchy who had kept the Faith, with very few exceptions has done nothing but stand in silence in the face of rampant public heresy.
Its important to remember, however, that although cowardice is deplorable, it does not cause the automatic loss of office. A cowardly Catholic remains a Catholic unless he becomes a heretic himself, or unless the Church says otherwise by excommunication.
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Post by Pacelli on Oct 21, 2017 11:26:07 GMT -5
I left a pretty conservative Novus Ordo parish with a conservative priest; however it had its share of pro-aborts and pro-sodomites. I left only because of what I learned about the Novus Ordo and all the new rites and their possible invalidity and I only learned all that because Francis has been such an ass-hat. . If I commit myself to this church and the priest does or says something crazy like have a homosexual Mass, it will break my heart. I don't really want to go back to the TLM. I guess I'll just muddle along as best I can there,hope for the best and avoid the theological talks as Vox suggested. Pay careful attention to what the priest says in his sermons and in conversations. If you don't hear heresy or error, then don't worry about it, just keep your guard up until you are certain about him. Its not our job to interrogate, the duty of the laity is to react to what we see and hear. If you hear wishy-washy feel good garbage, that means you need to be careful, but it does not mean the priest is a heretic. Heresy is very specific term, and in many cases it will not be readily obvious if you are dealing with a heretic, or a liberal Catholic.
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Post by Pacelli on Oct 21, 2017 12:33:17 GMT -5
I posted the article, Heresy in History, Daly, 2000. The principles explained by Mr. Daly in that article apply to this discussion as well, IMO, in addition to the point he was making in the article. It would be a good read for everyone participating in this thread. The arctle is linked HERE
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Post by Voxxkowalski on Oct 21, 2017 12:33:55 GMT -5
But Vox, With all due respect, what if the priest’s personal theological views transcend into the sermon. I.e. praying for the intercession of non-Catholic “saints”, ecumenism etc. Happens a lot I’m afraid. Surely not something you would want to expose your family to especially those uneducated in the Faith. Sermons?...what am I a protty...unless its open heresy...I read the bulletin during the sermons. Ive never heard a sermon in all my years that wasnt a vanilla script.
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Post by Voxxkowalski on Oct 21, 2017 12:38:21 GMT -5
In time of war You folks need to revisit your qualifications
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Post by wenceslav on Oct 21, 2017 17:27:27 GMT -5
Vox said:
The false Ecumenism that is rampant in the Novus Ordo or in an occasional Ukr. parish is open heresy. The Ukr. priest may be confused, may be unaware of his error but certainly should be avoided.
St. Paul 1st Corinthians: Ch. 15, Ver. 33. Be not deceived: evil communications corrupt good manners.
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