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Post by Clotilde on Oct 21, 2017 18:04:21 GMT -5
I left a pretty conservative Novus Ordo parish with a conservative priest; however it had its share of pro-aborts and pro-sodomites. I left only because of what I learned about the Novus Ordo and all the new rites and their possible invalidity and I only learned all that because Francis has been such an ass-hat. . If I commit myself to this church and the priest does or says something crazy like have a homosexual Mass, it will break my heart. I don't really want to go back to the TLM. I guess I'll just muddle along as best I can there,hope for the best and avoid the theological talks as Vox suggested. I've always said it is a thin veil that divides us from the Novus Ordo Sect. If we didn't have the difficulty of the holy/episcopal orders or the changes to the core form of the Consecration in the Latin rite, or even if we are certain that it came from the Church, we would pretty much all be there. That is to say, if only a few factors were removed, even if the situation was bad, many of us would be in our local Latin rite parishes riding out the storm. The bottom line is valid sacraments. That doesn't give traditionalists a free pass, but if we are talking about why we can ignore certain errors on a local level in canonical parishes or at least overlook them, again, it's all about the sacraments.
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Post by Voxxkowalski on Oct 21, 2017 18:05:49 GMT -5
What Im telling you...here in Pennsylvania...never ever in my whole life have I heard an offensive sermon. The only exception was this bloviating neoconservative deacon who used to quote John Paul2 and call him John Paul the great. I went to the priest ..voiced a strong complaint on the undeserved title...the Deacon never said it again when I was there. His sermon otherwise was always against abortion.
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Post by Pacelli on Oct 21, 2017 18:15:47 GMT -5
What Im telling you...here in Pennsylvania...never ever in my whole life have I heard an offensive sermon. The only exception was this bloviating neoconservative deacon who used to quote John Paul2 and call him John Paul the great. I went to the priest ..voiced a strong complaint on the undeserved title...the Deacon never said it again when I was there. His sermon otherwise was always against abortion. I have never heard a heretical sermon from eastern rite priests. I have never heard them or witnessed them promote false ecumenism. I have never heard them mention even the name of the "pope" outside of the required mentioning in the liturgy. I have never heard them mention or talk about Vatican II or any of its heresies or errors. I can also attest that I have never heard these things from them in conversations either. My experience is from numerous eastern rites, mostly Ukrainian from multiple US states that I have either lived in or travelled through.
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Post by Voxxkowalski on Oct 21, 2017 18:19:07 GMT -5
Now if being boring was a sin....oy vey
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Post by Clotilde on Oct 21, 2017 18:23:03 GMT -5
Now if being boring was a sin....oy vey I wish. I've almost had to yank my kids out of mass at the Latin rite because the subject matter of the sermon was too detailed. I've also heard errors and heretical statements at the TLM. I usually ignore the sermons.
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Post by wenceslav on Oct 21, 2017 18:29:38 GMT -5
Pacelli we’re going around in circles. I think we have discussed this before. I guess personal experience is all we have. I’m happy your experiences were good. I’ve had the misfortune of only having access to Nationalist parishes where the virtues of Ukrainian Orthodoxy are extolled and doctrinal differences minimized. If you can read Ukrainian you should read “Persecuted Tradition” by Fr. Vasyl Kovpak (of the Society of St. Josafat). It verifies what I said at least in the Ukrainian context. I can make it available to those who want.
Beyond this we have to agree to disagree.
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Post by Pacelli on Oct 21, 2017 19:18:54 GMT -5
Pacelli we’re going around in circles. I think we have discussed this before. I guess personal experience is all we have. I’m happy your experiences were good. I’ve had the misfortune of only having access to Nationalist parishes where the virtues of Ukrainian Orthodoxy are extolled and doctrinal differences minimized. If you can read Ukrainian you should read “Persecuted Tradition” by Fr. Vasyl Kovpak (of the Society of St. Josafat). It verifies what I said at least in the Ukrainian context. I can make it available to those who want. Beyond this we have to agree to disagree. I don't think we are disagreeing. I have accepted what you have said as true, I haven't doubted your word, and you have not doubted mine. It sounds terrible where you live, and if I was seeing what you were seeing, my reaction in that situation would be different. I am also not saying that all is perfect in the eastern rites in America. I am sure there are many examples that can be found of serious problems, I just haven't personally witnessed it. This is why I wrote the disclaimer put above every eastern rite directory I published on here, and it is also the reason why I left some eastern rites more known to be problematic out of the directories altogether.
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Post by Pacelli on Oct 21, 2017 19:23:34 GMT -5
Now if being boring was a sin....oy vey I wish. I've almost had to yank my kids out of mass at the Latin rite because the subject matter of the sermon was too detailed. I've also heard errors and heretical statements at the TLM. I usually ignore the sermons. It could also be mentioned that traditionalists have never received authorization to give a sermon in the first place. "And how can they preach, unless they be sent? (Romans 10:15)
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Post by Clotilde on Oct 21, 2017 20:11:24 GMT -5
I wish. I've almost had to yank my kids out of mass at the Latin rite because the subject matter of the sermon was too detailed. I've also heard errors and heretical statements at the TLM. I usually ignore the sermons. It could also be mentioned that traditionalists have never received authorization to give a sermon in the first place. "And how can they preach, unless they be sent? (Romans 10:15) Okay, fine, mid-mass speech.
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Post by Voxxkowalski on Oct 22, 2017 6:28:43 GMT -5
In time of war we sleep in wrinkled sheets...eat stale bread...and are happy for clean water.
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