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Post by Clotilde on Feb 16, 2017 18:17:15 GMT -5
I will keep your prayer intentions. It is really not surprising for a novus ordo teen to lose the faith. The novus ordo leads to loss of faith. I've followed the careers of traditionalist families and the numbers look bad there too. As a mother, that is very concerning, I am all ears when parents of grown children give me advice.
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Post by micah1199 on Feb 16, 2017 20:56:41 GMT -5
All history leads to the faith. If someone is truly educated in the faith by reading books by Father Fahey, Chesterton, Belloc, and William Thomas Walsh, the person would see why the modern world is wicked and how we got here historically, theologically, and philosophically. It all logically fits. If a person raised on the above literature with a daily rosary family prayer life leaves the faith, then that person is doing so because he or she wants to embrace the world and live in sin.
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Post by micah1199 on Feb 16, 2017 20:58:33 GMT -5
The logical contradictions that the person would embrace would necessitate a complete abandonment of the faith to sin and eventual despair if the person did not reconvert later before death.
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Post by micah1199 on Feb 16, 2017 21:05:33 GMT -5
The Catholic Faith is true reality and any rejection of it is to lead a fantasy existence that leads to hell. Father Edward Leen in his books elucidates how far into unreality that the world had fallen prior to Christ. The only thing that matters is saving our soul. Anything that doesn't help towards that is a decent into a false reality. I watch the news and I am struck how the anchors really believe that what they are babbling about has any true import. They are wasting their lives reporting on people also wasting their lives in falsehood.
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Post by Voxxkowalski on Feb 16, 2017 22:55:32 GMT -5
I was raised in a completely dysfunctional and wicked homelife. My mother however was very faithful to the Church and God and she personally never gave up...But she did nothing to raise me Catholic after I was a teenager beyond keeping holiday Traditions. Im not saying that is a good tactic...I am saying that in the end only God makes Good Catholics. To paraphrase a sermon I heard and cant totally remember....went something like .... There was a glorious preacher living in a certain city who was credited by the townfolks with many conversions because of his sermons and his knowledge and elocution. When he died he found it it was the beggar who lay in the street of the same city and who quietly said Hail marys for everyone he would meet as they passed by ignoring him. We must not dispair for our Children but put all in Gods hands...win or lose.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 16, 2017 23:24:03 GMT -5
Hmm, well in hindsite then should that glorious preacher have layed in the street begging and saying Hail Mary's? I would say that he should have done all that he did and the beggar quietly says Hail Mary's and all is in God's hands. The most important thing to a parent should be the salvation of his childrens' souls but each individual has free will in the end we each choose God or the world. I see a point in what Micah1199 says. NO contradicts previous Church teaching and that makes a child growing into an adult question if the faith is true at all. If it doesn't occur to the person that freemasons have hatched a plot to infiltrate and take over the Church thereby in effect eclipsing Her teaching one may conclude that it was all just a fairy tale. It doesn't seem implausible that this would never occur to someone in NO. Someone in a family that has fled to a traditional order may be more likely to be familiar with the enemies of the Church and how they have operated in recent history.
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Post by Voxxkowalski on Feb 17, 2017 6:11:21 GMT -5
my point isnt in reference to the NO....but in traditional true catholicism. I came from near zero Catholic influence in my teen and young adulthood...to awakening to a full love of the faith in my 30s. Ironically because of my children. I dont think the faith is like a skill set you can imbue your children with "if you raise them right". Im not saying dont do your best or everything you can...its just not a given that children cant fall away anyway. This issue does effect me because I feel I didnt do abetter job....but I tried...and I am still trying to show them that without their faith everything else is empty. But the world is a cesspool anymore...its influnce has become all encompassing and unless you can live like an amish catholic ...if there was such a community...Im not sure what can be done further. Then again I feel I deserve hell if my kids apostosize...I must have failed. Yes Im extreamly conflicted on this topic.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 17, 2017 7:27:02 GMT -5
I can't tell you how sorry I am to hear this. Yes, the world is a cesspool. And you are absolutely right, it isn't a skill set, it is a choice. A choice between God and the world and many many choose the world. It stinks to be hated, it stinks to not have friends, it stinks to lose prestige, respect and love of those around you. This is often what choosing God entails and its often not the wide and easy path. It sounds like you've done all you can and continue to do so. I would tell you that I believe that the impact a father and mother have on their children is far deeper than their seeming ambivalence would lead one to believe, so never give up. You certainly do not deserve hell if your kids apostosize and you haven't failed. Look at St. Monica, if St. Augustine hadn't converted, she wouldn't have deserved hell, surely you know this intellectually. My brothers have all apostosized and we grew up in the same home. They made a choice but as long as they are still breathing they can make a different one and I still pray and have hope that they will. We are estranged now because their lives have gone down a path that is so very evil that I wouldn't even be in the same house as them, for purely practical reasons, you know like personal safety and that of my family. So, I have no influence on them at this point. But, I never left anything unsaid between us. They have my unceasing prayers for them and you never know when something you've said or done for someone stays with them and will be of help someday. I'm going to add your children to my prayers.
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Post by micah1199 on Feb 17, 2017 7:29:14 GMT -5
Voxx,
Your quote was good, but it shows that God uses everything in the economy of salvation from the beggars prayers to the preaching of the priest. I think my faith too is a free gift from God that I did not deserve because Thier are better people than myself who did not receive it or rejected the grace. If I go to heaven when I die, I hope to meet the person whose prayers caused my conversion. I also read voraciously as a teenager and a young adult from history and the internet about how we got here historically and theologically. A teenager that has not been armed with the historical knowledge is handicapped because the modern world and the crisis in the Church will cause a crisis for him or her. He or she must know how and why we got here. It would confirm Thier fledgling faith. Who is correct a small group of traditional Catholics or the giant novus ordo and the world? That is what the teenager would ask him or herself and without knowledge of historical, philosophical, and theological progression. The small group of trads would seem like nuts. We are in the general preparation for Anti-Christ. The world will get much worse. Every vice will be legalized. I say the prior, but it is no reason to despair. We are in God's Hands and under Our Lady's mantle.
Jesus and Mary, David
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Post by micah1199 on Feb 17, 2017 7:44:31 GMT -5
Dear Vox,
I will also encourage you to pray unceasingly like Erica. A teenager may apostatize when young, but because of prayers may become disgusted with sin and the world and return and embrace the faith when an adult. As Erica said, Saint Monica would not be damned if her son rejected the grace and chose not to convert. I also truly believe that the daily rosary, sacrafices of daily duty, and living a consecration to the Immaculate heart will lead us to Heaven. Our Lady emphasized the daily Rosary and Immaculate heart consecration for a reason because I believe that she was looking toward Catholics of Our time and further on who will be bereft of the Mass and Sacraments or can only sporadically receive them. Sister Lucy wrote that their is no problem especially spiritual that cannot be solved by the Rosary.
Jesus and Mary, David
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Post by micah1199 on Feb 17, 2017 7:51:58 GMT -5
Dear Vox,
I recently read the book "The end of the present world and the mysteries of the Future Life," by Father Arminjon. It was the book that inspired the Little Flower. I wish that I had read this book as a teenager. It gives much hope and shows what someone dying in a state of grace can look forward to. I recommend it.
Jesus and Mary, David
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Post by micah1199 on Feb 17, 2017 8:39:32 GMT -5
Dear Forum,
I think that we all should meditate on these words of Our Lady to Juan Diego when each on of us feels discouragement and fear.
""Listen, put it into your heart, my youngest and dearest son, that the thing that disturbs you, the thing that afflicts you, is nothing. Do not let your countenance, your heart be disturbed. Do not fear this sickness of your uncle or any other sickness, nor anything that is sharp or hurtful. Am I not here, I, who am your Mother? Are you not under my shadow and protection? Am I not the source of your joy? Are you not in the hollow of my mantle, in the crossing of my arms? Do you need anything more? Let nothing else worry you, disturb you. Do not let your uncle's illness worry you, because he will not die now. You may be certain that he is already well."
Jesus and Mary, David
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Post by Deleted on Feb 17, 2017 10:21:08 GMT -5
I'm from an Italian Father and Irish Mother who were raised and married Catholic in the early 1950's. My Father turned out to be a total atheist and my Mother in the 1960's left the Catholic Faith for Protestantism and totally rejected the Catholic Religion. (Needless to say, as a result I was a confused mess.). As a result I grew up with a Mother who was constantly bashing the Catholic Faith and a Father who was a total non-believer. I feel my only saving Grace was my Father's Mother who was from Naples, Italy and a very, very devout Roman Catholic and who would walk one mile each way to Mass every day. It must have been her prayers that brought me home to the Faith at the age of 62 yrs - it's never too late. God works in mysterious ways.
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Post by Clotilde on Feb 17, 2017 22:48:19 GMT -5
my point isnt in reference to the NO....but in traditional true catholicism. I came from near zero Catholic influence in my teen and young adulthood...to awakening to a full love of the faith in my 30s. Ironically because of my children. I dont think the faith is like a skill set you can imbue your children with "if you raise them right". Im not saying dont do your best or everything you can...its just not a given that children cant fall away anyway. This issue does effect me because I feel I didnt do abetter job....but I tried...and I am still trying to show them that without their faith everything else is empty. But the world is a cesspool anymore...its influnce has become all encompassing and unless you can live like an amish catholic ...if there was such a community...Im not sure what can be done further. Then again I feel I deserve hell if my kids apostosize...I must have failed. Yes Im extreamly conflicted on this topic. You do everything you can with the knowledge and wisdom that you have.
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Post by Clotilde on Feb 17, 2017 22:54:11 GMT -5
I know as my children get older that I've come down to reality on this issue. I listen to other parents, try to learn from their mistakes, follow their successes, and glean whatever wisdom I can.
Across the board, I do feel that things minimize the risk of loss of faith, but in the end we have to learn to let go. It can be difficult when other people have not had an opportunity to gain wisdom and they judge you or make snide remarks, but I don't worry about them anymore, I try to realize that their time will come, they will have their trials.
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