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Post by Didymus on Sept 11, 2023 4:59:49 GMT -5
Maybe someone has already posted this before, but I want to try to persuade a person of error on the question "Una Cum" but unfortunately I very much doubt that this person wants to start reading John Lane or some Catholic layman. Since when there are no authoritative voices in these things, the faithful tend to dismiss him because of his trust in the traditional clergy.
Could you tell me what is best to persuade these minds and share the articles or links that talk about this issue that come from traditional clergy or by priests sent by the Church in the past or from authoritative voices that dismantle this absurd policy of Bishop Sanborn?
I must clarify that this person attends a chapel along the lines of Guerard de Lauriers, therefore I think that it would be good to approach the points from there, since I know that Bishop Guerard de Lauriers never said that it was a mortal sin to go to Mass once. Cum only said that he left it "on conscience." Does anyone remember this quote?
Also, in what work did Sanborn say it was a mortal sin? Was there a traditional priest who refuted this idea?
God Bless you !!
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Post by Pacelli on Sept 11, 2023 9:04:50 GMT -5
Hello Didymus,
Below is is from Bishop Sanborn's blog, June 8, 2020, in which he teaches that receiving communion from an una cum mass is a mortal sin, and other sources that say that even actively participating at these masses is a mortal sin. Fr. Cekada says the same in the "Grain of Incense," article, and in that one you don't even have to read beyond the title, as that says it all, as according to his perverse reasoning receiving Holy Communion at mass, said by a validly ordained Catholic priest, using the Catholic rite is equivalent to offering incense to a false god. I will also post the public teaching of Fr. Desposito who works hand in glove with Bishop Sanborn, and is a professor at his seminary.
There is no doubt that these men believe this, as they publicly teach it, and state very clearly that is a sin, and a horrible sin at that, with both Fr. Cekada and Fr. Desposito stating that it is a sin against the First Commandment!
Bishop Sanborn, in his "Sacramental Policy" wrote:
Fr. Cekada wrote: And and:
Fr. Desposito, who is a "seminary professor" in Sanborn's seminary taught: And:
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Post by Didymus on Sept 11, 2023 11:08:52 GMT -5
Hello Didymus, Below is is from Bishop Sanborn's blog, June 8, 2020, in which he teaches that receiving communion from an una cum mass is a mortal sin, and other sources that say that even actively participating at these masses is a mortal sin. Fr. Cekada says the same in the "Grain of Incense," article, and in that one you don't even have to read beyond the title, as that says it all, as according to his perverse reasoning receiving Holy Communion at mass, said by a validly ordained Catholic priest, using the Catholic rite is equivalent to offering incense to a false god. I will also post the public teaching of Fr. Desposito who works hand in glove with Bishop Sanborn, and is a professor at his seminary. There is no doubt that these men believe this, as they publicly teach it, and state very clearly that is a sin, and a horrible sin at that, with both Fr. Cekada and Fr. Desposito stating that it is a sin against the First Commandment! Bishop Sanborn, in his "Sacramental Policy" wrote:Fr. Cekada wrote:And and: Fr. Desposito, who is a "seminary professor" in Sanborn's seminary taught:And: Thank you very much Pacelli for your patience once again, what articles do you recommend to convince a mind that follows the clergy of Guerard de Lauriers? These people only follow blindly but they are not dogmatic apparently, but I think that before reading an article by a layman, I think they would be interested in seeing if there are traditional priests who attack this policy since it would be more "reliable" to them than the reasoning of a layman, do you understand me? Are there old authoritative or traditional clergy articles besides Pivarunas that attack this policy? I think I would leave John Lane and Daly last, since they may reject it for being laymen and I prefer to start with traditional clergy sources or old priests sent by the Church.
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Post by Pacelli on Sept 11, 2023 12:32:07 GMT -5
Hi Didymus, For some of the best work done on this, John Lane gives the most in depth analysis, but as the person will not look at his work, then I'll post some explanations by priests trained by the Church: (All of these quotes were assembled by Bishop Pivarunas, and are found in his article, linked HERE) Fr. Martin Stepanich, ordained in 1941:Fr. Noel Barbara, ordained in 1938:Fr. Oswald Baker, ordained in 1927:
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Post by Voxxkowalski on Sept 25, 2023 11:22:30 GMT -5
I recently relieved and assured a scandelized friend who was avoiding una cum francis liturgys and masses ( he has returned to attendence). Im not theologian...nor as precise as Pacelli...but the Lord has granted me the gift of persuasion on occasion. The simplest path from my discussion is to spend time with your friend discussing the mass and the mass alone with them. Ask them what is the ultimate purpose of the Mass...why did Jesus give it to us at such a great cost..what role does the una cum play in that purpose? ( none) In the early Church most laity didnt know anything about who the person who was named Pope even was...during persecutions...long distances between Churches..etc The Non Una Cum sects are suffering from a modernist conceite that the present times with the internet radio and newspapers has always been in existance. That Our Lord demands from us sheep constant knowledge of the goings on in rome and the world. That he would allow His most precious children starved of His Body due to political machinations of the evil one. Non Una cum makes no theological or historical sense. Its a innovation unheard of til cekada and The Gertrude crowd. Focus on the Purpose of the Mass...get your friends to clearly show from Church teaching outside of the dogmatic sede clergy where the Mass becomes DEFECT OF ITS PURPOSE by naming the wrong name of a Pope in the una cum section. If they continue in their positions after that discussion...they have a very poor understanding of the Mass to begin with.
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