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Post by Didymus on Jul 16, 2023 21:32:40 GMT -5
After 60 years, the Tridentine Holy Mass was celebrated in the most important cathedral in Colombia. In the Basilica of Our Lady of the Rosary of Chiquinquirá, which contains the painting miraculously renewed by Our Lady, it has been the place where the sacrifice of the holy Mass has been carried out again . The one who offered the Mass was the Superior of the Autonomous House of Central America and the Caribbean, Father Ezequiel María Rubio All with the permission of the "authorities" of the Basilica. What do you think of this? Is it dangerous to mix with the conciliar sect? Or do you think that the FSSPX will be part of this restoration of the Church?
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Post by Pacelli on Jul 17, 2023 6:42:00 GMT -5
After 60 years, the Tridentine Holy Mass was celebrated in the most important cathedral in Colombia. In the Basilica of Our Lady of the Rosary of Chiquinquirá, which contains the painting miraculously renewed by Our Lady, it has been the place where the sacrifice of the holy Mass has been carried out again . The one who offered the Mass was the Superior of the Autonomous House of Central America and the Caribbean, Father Ezequiel María Rubio All with the permission of the "authorities" of the Basilica. What do you think of this? Is it dangerous to mix with the conciliar sect? Or do you think that the FSSPX will be part of this restoration of the Church? View AttachmentView AttachmentView AttachmentIt depends on what you mean by "sect." These buildings, (Churches, Cathedrals, etc.) are owned by Catholics, not a sect. The sect has no right to these properties. The people, so long as they have not knowingly left the Church and joined the new sect, or have not embraced the beliefs of the new sect, are Catholics, by definition. My hunch would be that those showing up for this mass would more than likely be Catholics, not members of the sect, as one characteristic of this new sect is a hatred of the approved Catholics rites.
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Post by Didymus on Jul 17, 2023 14:57:09 GMT -5
I am not referring to the buildings, I am referring to this outward position of putting the Novus Ordo or likely dubious novus ordo authorities in charge of these buildings on an equal footing with Church tradition.
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John Lewis
Full Member
Reviewing the Knowledge
Posts: 372
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Post by John Lewis on Jul 17, 2023 15:35:06 GMT -5
Is the concern that you have more that they are offering the Novus Ordo in the same location? Are you concerned about inter-religious worship?
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Post by Didymus on Jul 17, 2023 16:50:05 GMT -5
If John some comments that I have read is that the altar, the basilica and an exorcism should have been blessed because it was already used for a rite that desecrated said basilica, like modernism. With the guarantee that it will never be used again with the pseudo-Catholic rite... If not, some say that said mass that honors and gives honor and glory to God should not have been performed. since then, you are only playing to be and not to be.
I understand that some may say that the novus ordo has not been condemned, but is this situation correct?
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Post by Pacelli on Jul 17, 2023 18:47:51 GMT -5
I am not referring to the buildings, I am referring to this outward position of putting the Novus Ordo or likely dubious novus ordo authorities in charge of these buildings on an equal footing with Church tradition. Does it truly achieve that? I am not sure. The Tradition stands separate from any who separate from it. It makes me wonder whether the person that approved of this has separated from Tradition. Otherwise, why do it?
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Post by Pacelli on Jul 17, 2023 18:50:48 GMT -5
If John some comments that I have read is that the altar, the basilica and an exorcism should have been blessed because it was already used for a rite that desecrated said basilica, like modernism. With the guarantee that it will never be used again with the pseudo-Catholic rite... If not, some say that said mass that honors and gives honor and glory to God should not have been performed. since then, you are only playing to be and not to be. I understand that some may say that the novus ordo has not been condemned, but is this situation correct? The Novus Ordo mimics a Protestant service, not a satanic rite, so the difference should be obvious. This source shows the attitude of the Holy See on churches used by both Catholics and Protestants: tradcath.proboards.com/thread/472/catholic-churches-used-sects
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Post by Didymus on Jul 17, 2023 21:06:15 GMT -5
If John some comments that I have read is that the altar, the basilica and an exorcism should have been blessed because it was already used for a rite that desecrated said basilica, like modernism. With the guarantee that it will never be used again with the pseudo-Catholic rite... If not, some say that said mass that honors and gives honor and glory to God should not have been performed. since then, you are only playing to be and not to be. I understand that some may say that the novus ordo has not been condemned, but is this situation correct? The Novus Ordo mimics a Protestant service, not a satanic rite, so the difference should be obvious. This source shows the attitude of the Holy See on churches used by both Catholics and Protestants: tradcath.proboards.com/thread/472/catholic-churches-used-sectsIf Pacelli, probably the "Bishop" of the place, is just a confused Catholic, those who say that exorcisms should be done are exaggerated and out of place. I think this quote solves the root of my question, about whether in a Catholic Church in In times of crisis, this desecrated rite of the Novus Ordo and the Tridentine Mass could be carried out, excellent data. I still have doubts about whether it is okay to have this indifferentism in the face of the complex and doubtful situation of the priestly orders and episcopal consecrations of so many men in the novus ordo, I am not speaking from the perspective of the fsspx but as a sedevacantist, since this FSSPX policy makes many Catholic people go to these men with dubious orders without problems and it seems that instead of helping the cause the problem remains even more obscured. Wouldn't this be further encouraging many Catholics to go indifferently to these men, what do you think?
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Post by Pacelli on Jul 18, 2023 10:19:03 GMT -5
The exorcisms are still a good idea, but in my opinion, not due to the Novus Ordo, in and of itself, as it seems clear that there is and has been a wave of diabolical confusion that has afflicted Catholics, both the hierarchy and the laity for the last 55 years or so. This is clearly a spiritual problem at its root, and it needs to be thought of and addressed as such.
There is indifferentism on settled matters, but that is not what is being discussed. Nothing since the beginning of this crisis has been settled, not the status of Paul VI, his novel rites, including the Novus Ordo, his new rites of holy orders, etc. Every conclusion we have made is in accord with our own private judgment based on our own moral certainty.
I along with you have judged the Novus Ordo and the novel rites of holy orders to be at a minimum doubtful as to validity, and therefore have nothing to do with them, but does that mean that we must sever communion with Catholics who disagree, or who haven't figured things out well enough yet? I do not see why. The Church has not bound Catholics on these matters, so how can anyone do so? The SSPX with their validly ordained priest, using the Catholic rite is saying mass, and Catholics are free to worship with him by assisting at that mass.
If anything, it will strengthen those Catholics who are confused or weak, and in a sense, it will be a form of preaching for them, by being present at the beautiful and valid Catholic rite in which they will see the Catholic mass as it existed prior to the crisis and receive many graces and if they receive Holy Communion, it will be a true and valid Host, immensely helping their souls.
I understand the points you bring up, that Catholics may be confused about the status of the Paul VI rite line priests, or the Novus Ordo, but if anything, having a validly ordained priest saying mass for them in the Catholic rite, will win graces for them to find their way out of the maze of confusion we are living through. For some or many in attendance, it may be their first valid mass of their life, and very possibly their first reception of Holy Communion.
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