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Post by marcellusfaber on May 12, 2023 7:40:54 GMT -5
After Jorge Bergoglio's claim that Copts murdered by Mohammadan militants are martrys (https://www.vaticannews.va/en/pope/news/2023-05/pope-francis-tawadros-ii-coptic-orthodox-martyrs-egypt.html), some people have tried to claim that this is not unprecedented, for Pius XII apparently allowed the veneration of some Russian Orthodox 'saints' from the late Middle Ages. TIA (and I do know to be suspicious of their claims) was sent some images of a 1956 edition of Alban Butler's Lives of the Saints in which some comment is made: www.traditioninaction.org/HotTopics/b020ht_RussianSt.htmHow is this justified and how do we square it with the disciplinary infallibility of the Church? Does anyone know of the details of the matter or of any official documents on the subject?
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Post by wenceslav on May 12, 2023 8:29:13 GMT -5
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Post by marcellusfaber on May 12, 2023 9:08:14 GMT -5
Thanks for that, Wenceslav.
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Post by wenceslav on May 12, 2023 9:23:11 GMT -5
Also Marcel:
Note: RR = Recensio Ruthena (Ukrainian Catholic sanctorale) RV = Recensio Vulgata (Russian Catholic sanctorale)
With specific reference to Sergius of Radonezh, this is what Petrowycz has to say on p.333 of his dissertation:
Reference 928: The RR documentation does not include the mention of a cut-off date, but Raes later commented that all the selected saints were prior to the (rejection of ) the Union of Florence: La première édition, 521.
Comments: (i) Sergius of Radonezh was not admitted into the Ukrainian Catholic Sanctorale for obvious ethnic reasons - i.e. Ukrainians, generally, would not appreciate venerating a Russian saint. But he was admitted into the Russian Catholic Sanctorale.
(ii) Notwithstanding the Butler reference and comments published on TIA’s website, Sergius was not considered a schismatic by the Vatican commission in charge of the Russian Sanctorale. Reference 928 above refers to the cut-off date as the Council of Florence. I am not sure if this was the only historical criteria used to judge Sergius (I believe they must have had more information), but they would not (and could not) include a schismatic in the Sanctorale as evidenced by the many statements in Petrowycz’s well documented thesis.
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Post by wenceslav on May 13, 2023 16:28:17 GMT -5
It has been a long time since I reviewed Petrowycz’s dissertation. I could not find verification for my statement “ Those who were schismatics (even in good faith) could only be venerated privately.”
I do not think that the private veneration of schismatics (even those who seemed to have led holy lives) is a good idea. Although, I know of many Eastern Catholics (including clergy) who include an icon of a known schismatic in their so-called “icon corner” (i.e. “St. Seraphim” of Sarov), I strongly believe Catholics should venerate (privately or otherwise) only those who have been approved by Church authorities (which would never include schismatics).
Perhaps Pacelli or Vox would like to add to this. I apologize for confusing anyone with that sentence.
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Post by Voxxkowalski on May 16, 2023 7:25:34 GMT -5
It has been a long time since I reviewed Petrowycz’s dissertation. I could not find verification for my statement “ Those who were schismatics (even in good faith) could only be venerated privately.” I do not think that the private veneration of schismatics (even those who seemed to have led holy lives) is a good idea. Although, I know of many Eastern Catholics (including clergy) who include an icon of a known schismatic in their so-called “icon corner” (i.e. “St. Seraphim” of Sarov), I strongly believe Catholics should venerate (privately or otherwise) only those who have been approved by Church authorities (which would never include schismatics). Perhaps Pacelli or Vox would like to add to this. I apologize for confusing anyone with that sentence. I would like to start a discussion about what it would take on both sides to heal this schism and what would it look like if it happened. Interestingly the schism is predicted by Our Lady to be healed by her immaculate heart in the future. Look for a Thread in General Cath
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