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Post by Zostrianos on Jun 13, 2016 13:20:03 GMT -5
I am looking for a source for a magisterial 20th century papal document that formally listed the enemies of the Catholic Church, and included (at least in part) "Jews, atheists, Freemasons, and communists" (though not necessarily in that order). I'm having a hard time finding this quote using Google because of the ubiquity of these terms in relation to the Church. But I'm pretty sure I'm remembering this correctly: there was a 20th century pope who issued a document (possibly an encyclical) wherein he listed the enemies of the Church. Any assistance on this topic would be helpful; I fear that I am either misremembering this quote or hallucinating it altogether.
If there wasn't such a particular denunciation, then I suppose my question is: what is the strongest statement any 20th century pope publicly made against Jews, atheists, communists, or Freemasons? Specifically, a statement that mentions Jews or atheists. The other two are unimportant for the purposes of my research; even some of the conciliar popes could be bothered to rail against Freemasonry and communism from time to time. But had the Church been softening its rhetoric prior to Vatican II?
Gracias.
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Post by Voxxkowalski on Jun 13, 2016 14:18:07 GMT -5
PacelliI am looking for a source for a magisterial 20th century papal document that formally listed the enemies of the Catholic Church, and included (at least in part) "Jews, atheists, Freemasons, and communists" (though not necessarily in that order). I'm having a hard time finding this quote using Google because of the ubiquity of these terms in relation to the Church. But I'm pretty sure I'm remembering this correctly: there was a 20th century pope who issued a document (possibly an encyclical) wherein he listed the enemies of the Church. Any assistance on this topic would be helpful; I fear that I am either misremembering this quote or hallucinating it altogether. If there wasn't such a particular denunciation, then I suppose my question is: what is the strongest statement any 20th century pope publicly made against Jews, atheists, communists, or Freemasons? Specifically, a statement that mentions Jews or atheists. The other two are unimportant for the purposes of my research; even some of the conciliar popes could be bothered to rail against Freemasonry and communism from time to time. But had the Church been softening its rhetoric prior to Vatican II? Gracias.
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clare
Junior Member
Posts: 51
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Post by clare on Jun 16, 2016 4:18:29 GMT -5
... But had the Church been softening its rhetoric prior to Vatican II? I was just thinking recently that, as far as I know, even Our Lady hasn't mentioned Jews in her apparitions. Make of that what you will.
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Post by Zostrianos on Jun 16, 2016 9:50:48 GMT -5
... But had the Church been softening its rhetoric prior to Vatican II? I was just thinking recently that, as far as I know, even Our Lady hasn't mentioned Jews in her apparitions. Make of that what you will. That could very well be the case. Our Lady of Salette, however, predicted that the Antichrist would be "born of a Jewish nun," so that might qualify as at least a hint about Jewish infiltration of the Catholic Church. As an update to the OP, I was able to find a strong denunciation of atheism by Pius XII, so the only remaining question is: what are the strongest papal denunciations of Jews in the 20th century?
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Post by Voxxkowalski on Jun 16, 2016 11:06:45 GMT -5
Was Ann Emmerich 20th century?
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Post by Pacelli on Jun 16, 2016 11:26:11 GMT -5
Sorry, missed this one from before.
For the 20th century, the main focus of the hierarchy has been on modernism, communism, and atheism. In the 19th century, it was freemasonry, different kinds of schismatics, and in both the 19th and 20th centuries, they dealt with error after error as they bubbled up to the surface.
The Church deals with the errors and partisans of error that confront it in the time period that is arises.
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Post by Voxxkowalski on Jun 16, 2016 13:01:08 GMT -5
Our lady spoke of the errors of Russia...which were clearly Jewish materialism
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Post by Zostrianos on Jun 17, 2016 12:44:58 GMT -5
Sorry, missed this one from before. For the 20th century, the main focus of the hierarchy has been on modernism, communism, and atheism. In the 19th century, it was freemasonry, different kinds of schismatics, and in both the 19th and 20th centuries, they dealt with error after error as they bubbled up to the surface. The Church deals with the errors and partisans of error that confront it in the time period that is arises. Does this mean the hierarchy did not perceive Jews as a primary enemy of the Church in the 20th century?
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Post by Zostrianos on Jun 17, 2016 12:55:47 GMT -5
Our lady spoke of the errors of Russia...which were clearly Jewish materialism Although the Bolsheviks were friendly to Judaism (and indeed many Bolsheviks were Jewish), the formal stance of Russian communism was atheism. Ronald Reagan was quite correct when he labeled Russia "a godless nation." Lenin was ethnically Jewish on his mother's side, but he was raised Orthodox (which he renounced for atheism). I would assume "the errors of Russia" include atheism, and are not just limited to "Jewish materialism." I'm not saying you're wrong, I just don't think there's an explicit denunciation there.
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Post by Zostrianos on Jun 17, 2016 12:58:38 GMT -5
Was Ann Emmerich 20th century? Nineteenth, but so was Our Lady of La Salette. I'm not sure if Clare meant all apparitions, approved apparitions, or 20th century apparitions.
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Post by Pacelli on Jun 17, 2016 12:59:17 GMT -5
Sorry, missed this one from before. For the 20th century, the main focus of the hierarchy has been on modernism, communism, and atheism. In the 19th century, it was freemasonry, different kinds of schismatics, and in both the 19th and 20th centuries, they dealt with error after error as they bubbled up to the surface. The Church deals with the errors and partisans of error that confront it in the time period that is arises. Does this mean the hierarchy did not perceive Jews as a primary enemy of the Church in the 20th century? I don't think they were on the main radar screen. Follow the actions and teachings of the Pope's from the early 19th century until Pius XII, and you will see many heresies, errors and schisms dealt with, none of which involved the Jews. A lot lot has changed since they retook the Holy Land, prior to that, they were not, in my opinion, considered as a big deal in many Catholic minds, including the hierarchy. There were many more pressing and urgent problems constantly needing attention from the Popes.
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Post by Zostrianos on Jun 17, 2016 13:08:06 GMT -5
Does this mean the hierarchy did not perceive Jews as a primary enemy of the Church in the 20th century? I don't think they were on the main radar screen. Follow the actions and teachings of the Pope's from the early 19th century until Pius XII, and you will see many heresies, errors and schisms dealt with, none of which involved the Jews. A lot lot has changed since they retook the Holy Land, prior to that, they were not, in my opinion, considered as a big deal in many Catholic minds, including the hierarchy. There were many more pressing and urgent problems constantly needing attention from the Popes. That's what I'm curious about. In times past, popes had openly condemned the Jews as being the constant agitators behind all sorts of errors and heresies. And as Voxx has pointed out, even a modern error such as communism can be said to have some roots in Jewish materialism. So did the Jews actually take a vacation from what had long been perceived as their troublemaking, or were the modern popes somewhat neglectful of their influence?
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Post by Pacelli on Jun 17, 2016 13:08:43 GMT -5
The same could be said about the orthoducks and Muslims, they were problems for the hierarchy, just not on the radar screen for the last few hundred years or so. There were bigger issues at play for the Popes, and every time one was dealt with a new problem would arise.
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Post by Pacelli on Jun 17, 2016 13:11:27 GMT -5
I don't think they were on the main radar screen. Follow the actions and teachings of the Pope's from the early 19th century until Pius XII, and you will see many heresies, errors and schisms dealt with, none of which involved the Jews. A lot lot has changed since they retook the Holy Land, prior to that, they were not, in my opinion, considered as a big deal in many Catholic minds, including the hierarchy. There were many more pressing and urgent problems constantly needing attention from the Popes. That's what I'm curious about. In times past, popes had openly condemned the Jews as being the constant agitators behind all sorts of errors and heresies. And as Voxx has pointed out, even a modern error such as communism can be said to have some roots in Jewish materialism. So did the Jews actually take a vacation from what had long been perceived as their troublemaking, or were the modern popes somewhat neglectful of their influence? I don't think so, the Pope like all Catholics is bound by the moral law. Accusations must be substantiated with evidence. If they didn't have the evidence, then the assertion cannot be justly made.
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Post by Zostrianos on Jun 17, 2016 13:15:44 GMT -5
The same could be said about the orthoducks and Muslims, they were problems for the hierarchy, just not on the radar screen for the last few hundred years or so. There were bigger issues at play for the Popes, and every time one was dealt with a new problem would arise. I disagree. I think the tenor of historical papal disapproval of those three groups differs. The Orthodox were treated as vile heretics, yes, and the Muslims were viewed as violent barbarians, sure, but a level of severe distrust was reserved for the Jews that did not seem to apply to the former groups.
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