|
Post by RitaMarita on Jun 21, 2022 6:47:04 GMT -5
Catholics have no obligation to request the sacraments from any men who are not sent to them by the Church. If any man appears who is claiming to be a priest, the onus is on him to prove he is validly ordained. If a Catholic for whatever reason chooses to not request the sacraments from an unsent man who claims to be a priest, he is within his rights to do so. Laypeople are in control in our situation. The traditional priests may or may not accept requests for the sacraments, but it is the laity who must chose to make the request in the first place. If a man states he is a validly ordained priest with orders from the schismatic Old Catholic sect, I would pass on making the request to him for the sacraments. Rome can settle his case when the Church reforms, it's not for us to get into this can of worms. Even if these men who went to the "Old Catholics" (really the Brazilian National Catholics, which is NOT the "Old Catholics" of Utrecht) and then later were conditionally ordained by Catholic bishops, we must still avoid them? Did they catch some sort of spiritual cooties that sticks around forever? What then of the Eastern Catholics, who fairly recently came from the schismatic Orthodox... Shall we avoid them as well? I really want to understand what I should do! The Easter Catholics who came over reconciled with Rome did so before Vatican II and gave up their errors. So, they can be trusted more than the "Old Catholics" whom as far as we know never reconciled with true Church Authorities and are still excommunicated. "Ex-commun" meaning barred from Communion and hence we should not take Sacraments from them. The priests under them may be valid but unlike many other traditional Catholics their group was excommunicated before Vatican II and those who go under them and communicate with them in their Sacraments fall under their interdiction. Sad but really what those priests and bishops should do to get free from the connection from them is they should make a public renunciation so everyone knows otherwise we must take the safe course as St. Thomas says regarding Sacraments.
|
|
|
QUESTION
Jun 21, 2022 6:50:43 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by RitaMarita on Jun 21, 2022 6:50:43 GMT -5
Catholics have no obligation to request the sacraments from any men who are not sent to them by the Church. If any man appears who is claiming to be a priest, the onus is on him to prove he is validly ordained. If a Catholic for whatever reason chooses to not request the sacraments from an unsent man who claims to be a priest, he is within his rights to do so. Laypeople are in control in our situation. The traditional priests may or may not accept requests for the sacraments, but it is the laity who must chose to make the request in the first place. If a man states he is a validly ordained priest with orders from the schismatic Old Catholic sect, I would pass on making the request to him for the sacraments. Rome can settle his case when the Church reforms, it's not for us to get into this can of worms. Even if these men who went to the "Old Catholics" (really the Brazilian National Catholics, which is NOT the "Old Catholics" of Utrecht) and then later were conditionally ordained by Catholic bishops, we must still avoid them? Did they catch some sort of spiritual cooties that sticks around forever? What then of the Eastern Catholics, who fairly recently came from the schismatic Orthodox... Shall we avoid them as well? I really want to understand what I should do! Also... Do you need help finding a good place to go to Mass? Maybe if you tell us what state you live in we could give ideas? I know some states are isolated though... 😣 At King Kigeli of Rwanda's funeral Mass there was a man there who said he was the only remaining traditional Catholic in Rwanda. Phew... Imagine not only not having access to Mass but being the only traditional Catholic in your whole country! 😥
|
|
|
Post by Pacelli on Jun 21, 2022 9:14:24 GMT -5
Catholics have no obligation to request the sacraments from any men who are not sent to them by the Church. If any man appears who is claiming to be a priest, the onus is on him to prove he is validly ordained. If a Catholic for whatever reason chooses to not request the sacraments from an unsent man who claims to be a priest, he is within his rights to do so. Laypeople are in control in our situation. The traditional priests may or may not accept requests for the sacraments, but it is the laity who must chose to make the request in the first place. If a man states he is a validly ordained priest with orders from the schismatic Old Catholic sect, I would pass on making the request to him for the sacraments. Rome can settle his case when the Church reforms, it's not for us to get into this can of worms. Even if these men who went to the "Old Catholics" (really the Brazilian National Catholics, which is NOT the "Old Catholics" of Utrecht) and then later were conditionally ordained by Catholic bishops, we must still avoid them? Did they catch some sort of spiritual cooties that sticks around forever? What then of the Eastern Catholics, who fairly recently came from the schismatic Orthodox... Shall we avoid them as well? I really want to understand what I should do! The Brazilian National Catholic sect gets its orders from the late excommunicate Duarte Costa. No, there are no spiritual cooties as part of this, but there is a lack of moral certainty, for myself at least, as to whether the Catholic rite completely, totally, and unchanged was used at every ordination of priests and consecration of bishops for this sect. I would have to know more information in regards to what Catholic bishop conditionally ordained the men, and if it involved bishops, what Catholic bishop conditionally ordained them. For myself, I am not ready to request the sacraments from any man claiming to be a priest, without being completely sure that he is in fact a priest. There are many men alive who derive episcopal orders through the Thuc line, hundreds of them, but I'm not sure about many, if not most of them. Some are easier to follow than others. When the eastern rite Catholics rejoined the Church from their schismatic sects, Rome accepted their Holy Orders. It has always been a long-standing fact that the "Orthodox" meticulously kept the Catholic rites that they stole from the Church intact. There was no tinkering. When the schismatics returned, the Popes who accepted them back always recognized their priests as priests and bishops as bishops. To your last point, I can't tell you what to do. I have no authority. I can only tell you the advice to be very careful in our times. The Shepherds are not watching over you, and you are on your own to work these matters out for yourself. I can only tell you what I would do, and if you wish to know, I will tell you.
|
|