|
Post by harold on May 3, 2022 19:46:01 GMT -5
Hello everyone,
I'm Harold, and I'm a Catholic holding the sedevacatist position, I exited the Novus Ordo 2 years ago. I live near Tampa, FL.
Cheers!
|
|
|
Post by Voxxkowalski on May 3, 2022 21:10:50 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by RitaMarita on May 8, 2022 14:36:20 GMT -5
Welcome to the forum and the faith!
What helped you decide to join tradition Catholicism?
I love hearing people's stories! š
|
|
|
Post by harold on May 15, 2022 15:28:50 GMT -5
Thanks you much. So this is my story, I was raised in the Novus Ordo and we were very active. Growing up my dad used to remember from his childhood what he called the "Gregorian" mass, as he didn't know any other way to describe the Mass of St. Pius V. He spoke very highly of it and pondered as of why the Church ceased to celebrate it. One day, the word Apostasy came to my knowledge and I ask my dad to explain what it was. After his explanation, I asked him what we were to if all the bishop from the diocese were to fall into apostasy. His answer was that we were to find an independent bishop āout there in the worldā. This stuck with me, but it didnāt make any sense until much later, as I went astray for 16 years after I grew into adulthood. After my reversion to the Faith, I increasingly became very religious. And this were I started sensing that there was something off, as I saw how people seem to disregard Faith and there was lack of coherence with the Faith I knew from childhood. My hunger to learn more about the Catholic faith led me to read more about the life of the saint, as I figured to become a better catholic I needed to learn to best of the Catholics, the Saints (and not from those around me). This is when thing got interesting. I asked about why the tabernacle was set aside while the bible was at the center in the Church, and none seems to know or even care. I asked why the holy figures were painted with faded color as though there we meant to disappear in plain sight; most people seemed indifferent. Catholics hymns were being replaced by newer protestant songs. I figured Protestantism was being introduced into the Church. So, I started researching about the Gregorian mass my dad use to speak off with such high regards. I found out there was no such thing as Gregorian mass, but that there was the High Mass or Missa Cantata (as referred in Spanish) where Gregorian music is played to worship God. I was shocked to see the Latin mass seems nothing like the Mass I was raised with, but the real shocker what that the Lutheran service was near identical to the Novus ordo mass (which I didnāt call it that way then). Eventually I investigated further and came across the material of the Dimond Bros, which I treated with skepticism, but did not entirely reject it. That was my first exposure to Sedevacanstim, which didnāt seem right as expounded by the Dimonds (early 2019) and the Palmar de Troya made it seem something utterly wrong. I followed Dr. Taylor Marshall instead and became intrigued with R&R position, which was a more grounded and moderated position to take. However, the more Taylor Marshall talked, the more the Dimond brother made more sense to me. At that stage I was not aware of the Pachamama incident, but I was appalled by āFrancisā sermon of Dec. 12, 2019 were he reduced Our Blessed to a mere mother to āmother, disciple and mix raceā. Finally, the shutdown of Churches pushed me over Traditional Catholicism, as it made absolutely no sense that the Churches were closed when needed the most by the Faithful, totally inconsistent with Church history. Thatās when I learned about the Pachamama idolatry incident. This led me to take yet another look at the Dimondās material. I learned more about Bishop Thuc, and this is when the āIndependent Bishopsā my dad mention clicked in. That led me to the Sedevacantism, as I found the R&R position incoherent as I started reading Papal bulls (Cum Ex Apostolatus Officio for instance), dogmatic constitutions and encyclicals (no disrespect meant to anyone who might holds this position here).
|
|
|
Post by Pacelli on May 16, 2022 12:08:14 GMT -5
Hello Harold,
Welcome to the forum!
You are on the right track and are clearly trying to seek the truth in our times. I am happy that you are being careful with the Dimonds and Marshall. There are so many pitfalls and dangers these days, and so many public persons with their own answers to the crisis that it's very hard to get the bottom of everything.
It seems to me from your journey that you, like so many of us, are dealing with finding unquestionably valid sacraments using the Catholic rites as before t crisis, and secondly, getting to the truth about the crisis. Both issues are important, but at the same time, they can be separated. You may, for example, find a traditional chapel, that responds to the crisis incorrectly but has a valid priest who is Catholic says mass in the Catholic rite, but also incorrectly believes in Francis' claim to be Pope. Generally speaking, I would urge you to get to the mass and most importantly receive Holy Communion as frequently as possible to grow in grace, and not worry about crisis when at mass.
I say that with full knowledge of the grave dangers of getting the crisis wrong. There are errors on both sides of the solution, sedevacantists or R&R. Without the Pope and most of the Catholic Hierarchy to govern us and protect us we are on our own. Any leaders that you may find are not authorized leaders and speak only on their own authority, so be careful.
As far as groups in our times, in my opinion, the CMRI is the best as they do have valid orders and they also navigate the crisis best. I would also urge caution when going to their chapels, though, not because of the CMRI priests, they are good, but some of the laypeople who attend mass may hold the NUC error, so be careful. Error is all around us, and the Shepherds are not here to scare off the wolf.
|
|
|
Post by RitaMarita on May 16, 2022 19:21:41 GMT -5
Thanks you much. So this is my story, I was raised in the Novus Ordo and we were very active. Growing up my dad used to remember from his childhood what he called the "Gregorian" mass, as he didn't know any other way to describe the Mass of St. Pius V. He spoke very highly of it and pondered as of why the Church ceased to celebrate it. One day, the word Apostasy came to my knowledge and I ask my dad to explain what it was. After his explanation, I asked him what we were to if all the bishop from the diocese were to fall into apostasy. His answer was that we were to find an independent bishop āout there in the worldā. This stuck with me, but it didnāt make any sense until much later, as I went astray for 16 years after I grew into adulthood. After my reversion to the Faith, I increasingly became very religious. And this were I started sensing that there was something off, as I saw how people seem to disregard Faith and there was lack of coherence with the Faith I knew from childhood. My hunger to learn more about the Catholic faith led me to read more about the life of the saint, as I figured to become a better catholic I needed to learn to best of the Catholics, the Saints (and not from those around me). This is when thing got interesting. I asked about why the tabernacle was set aside while the bible was at the center in the Church, and none seems to know or even care. I asked why the holy figures were painted with faded color as though there we meant to disappear in plain sight; most people seemed indifferent. Catholics hymns were being replaced by newer protestant songs. I figured Protestantism was being introduced into the Church. So, I started researching about the Gregorian mass my dad use to speak off with such high regards. I found out there was no such thing as Gregorian mass, but that there was the High Mass or Missa Cantata (as referred in Spanish) where Gregorian music is played to worship God. I was shocked to see the Latin mass seems nothing like the Mass I was raised with, but the real shocker what that the Lutheran service was near identical to the Novus ordo mass (which I didnāt call it that way then). Eventually I investigated further and came across the material of the Dimond Bros, which I treated with skepticism, but did not entirely reject it. That was my first exposure to Sedevacanstim, which didnāt seem right as expounded by the Dimonds (early 2019) and the Palmar de Troya made it seem something utterly wrong. I followed Dr. Taylor Marshall instead and became intrigued with R&R position, which was a more grounded and moderated position to take. However, the more Taylor Marshall talked, the more the Dimond brother made more sense to me. At that stage I was not aware of the Pachamama incident, but I was appalled by āFrancisā sermon of Dec. 12, 2019 were he reduced Our Blessed to a mere mother to āmother, disciple and mix raceā. Finally, the shutdown of Churches pushed me over Traditional Catholicism, as it made absolutely no sense that the Churches were closed when needed the most by the Faithful, totally inconsistent with Church history. Thatās when I learned about the Pachamama idolatry incident. This led me to take yet another look at the Dimondās material. I learned more about Bishop Thuc, and this is when the āIndependent Bishopsā my dad mention clicked in. That led me to the Sedevacantism, as I found the R&R position incoherent as I started reading Papal bulls (Cum Ex Apostolatus Officio for instance), dogmatic constitutions and encyclicals (no disrespect meant to anyone who might holds this position here). Wow! What a story of the workings of and responding to grace! Thank you for sharing! š
|
|
|
Post by harold on Jun 5, 2022 20:31:38 GMT -5
Hello Harold, Welcome to the forum! You are on the right track and are clearly trying to seek the truth in our times. I am happy that you are being careful with the Dimonds and Marshall. There are so many pitfalls and dangers these days, and so many public persons with their own answers to the crisis that it's very hard to get the bottom of everything. It seems to me from your journey that you, like so many of us, are dealing with finding unquestionably valid sacraments using the Catholic rites as before t crisis, and secondly, getting to the truth about the crisis. Both issues are important, but at the same time, they can be separated. You may, for example, find a traditional chapel, that responds to the crisis incorrectly but has a valid priest who is Catholic says mass in the Catholic rite, but also incorrectly believes in Francis' claim to be Pope. Generally speaking, I would urge you to get to the mass and most importantly receive Holy Communion as frequently as possible to grow in grace, and not worry about crisis when at mass. I say that with full knowledge of the grave dangers of getting the crisis wrong. There are errors on both sides of the solution, sedevacantists or R&R. Without the Pope and most of the Catholic Hierarchy to govern us and protect us we are on our own. Any leaders that you may find are not authorized leaders and speak only on their own authority, so be careful. As far as groups in our times, in my opinion, the CMRI is the best as they do have valid orders and they also navigate the crisis best. I would also urge caution when going to their chapels, though, not because of the CMRI priests, they are good, but some of the laypeople who attend mass may hold the NUC error, so be careful. Error is all around us, and the Shepherds are not here to scare off the wolf.
|
|
|
Post by harold on Jun 5, 2022 21:15:47 GMT -5
Thanks Pacelli, I agree. The apostate Montini (or perhaps marrano) was correct in saying the smoke of Satan entered the Church, and as it is, there is a cloud of foul air where it's is difficult to discern the wolf from the shepherd. I also regard the CMRI as the best, and I believe His Excellency Mark Pivarunas to be an excellent pastor of souls, I admire his character and his priests. I read and hear what they say and how they say it; which inspire me confidence in their ministry. I cannot say the same with Bp. Sanborn organization. I went to MHT seminary once and that was more than enough for me. I follow his seminary videos, which I found them to be instructive, but I detest their cultish mindset.
|
|
|
Post by RitaMarita on Jun 7, 2022 5:51:33 GMT -5
Thanks Pacelli, I agree. The apostate Montini (or perhaps marrano) was correct in saying the smoke of Satan entered the Church, and as it is, there is a cloud of foul air where it's is difficult to discern the wolf from the shepherd. I also regard the CMRI as the best, and I believe His Excellency Mark Pivarunas to be an excellent pastor of souls, I admire his character and his priests. I read and hear what they say and how they say it; which inspire me confidence in their ministry. I cannot say the same with Bp. Sanborn organization. I went to MHT seminary once and that was more than enough for me. I follow his seminary videos, which I found them to be instructive, but I detest their cultish mindset. I believe that many of us simple traditional Catholics would agree with you the CMRI. I just wish they would do the Old Holy Week and such. Yet, I understand why they don't... š
|
|