New Resource Subforum on Traditionalist lines

[Pacelli]

The forum Administrator, Voxx, has started a new subforum in the research section which will be dedicated to putting up all known information on the Traditional bishop lines, and in some cases, priests ordination information as well, so Catholics can make a good decision as to whether or not they want to get involved with them.

We will put information up to help Catholics not only trace these men’s orders, but post information about the various sects that have intertwined themselves with Catholic in regards to episcopal orders, such as the Old Catholics, the Duarte-Costa bishops, the Palmarians, Eastern “Orthodox,”, etc.  Also, resources will be posted to inform others about the history, status, and character of these groups or men.  Lastly, resources will be posted to help Catholics form a judgment as to the validity and liceity of the orders of the men claiming to be bishops.  

Although the research section is restricted to certain contributors, members are still invited to start new threads with questions or information on the regular discussion part of this forum.

Link to new subforum: tradcath.proboards.com/board/52/traditionalist-groups-bishops-priests

[Voxxkowalski]

Mar 19, 2018 20:50:24 GMT -5 Pacelli said:

The forum Administrator, Voxx, has started a new subforum in the research section which will be dedicated to putting up all known information on the Traditional bishop lines, and in some cases priests orders as well, so Catholics can decide whether or not they want to get involved with them.  

Wouldnt it be more accurate to say YOU started it. I just set up the subforum?

[Pacelli]

I am scrapping the traditional bishop lineage subforum (Shepherds and Wolves).  I gave asked Voxx to delete it.  After having spent days, even weeks looking through all of the available information, I realize that I simply do not have the time to undertake this massive task of identifying all who have a claim to valid episcopal orders, and by that are “traditional bishops.”  There are hundreds of these men, and as we do not know all of the secret consecrations, it could even be much higher.  Also, we simply do not know enough about a lot of these men, such as what happned to many of the early bishops of Palma de Troya who were consecrated prior to the sacramental tampering that happened later.

I wanted to do this, as I think it needs to be done, but this task will have to fall to someone else who has the time to undertake this task.  My hope was that by documenting this information, Catholics would have a resourse to find out at least some basic information about any of these men so as to begin learning what they could before considering requesting the sacraments from any of them.  

Also, I am concerned that putting all of the bishops together may give the appearance of legitimizing some of the more “off base,” bishops with others that have behaved more reasonably.  

If the “state of necessity” theology based on the modern traditionalist interpretation of “necessity knows no law,”is correct, and it is licit to consecrate bishops in this state of necessity based on the sole judgment of a valid consecrator, then logically if these principles are true, all of these men have claims to legitimacy as “traditional bishops.”  Presuming they are validly consecrated, the only thing separating them are other issues, not their claims to be legitimately operating in the Church in the role of “traditional bishops.”  For myself, I do not concede the initial premise, therefore, I do not accept that any of the consecrations are licit, although many, maybe most, are probably validly consecrated.  

If anyone has any questions about a particular traditional bishop, feel free to post it, and I will try to help to get the information you need.  

[pauljoseph]

I'd be interested in any Pope Pius XII intel relating to his attempts to smuggle priests behind the Iron Curtain. Of course Montini ratted some of them to Stalin and most were executed &/or 'gulaged'. Also curious why Montini was not excommunicated by Pius XII for his treason? It surely would have saved some trouble after Pius died.

[John Lewis]

Does this thread still need to be pinned?

[Pacelli]

Jul 14, 2023 20:32:07 GMT -5 John Lewis said:

Does this thread still need to be pinned?

I don't think it matters, the project turned out to be overwhelming for the time I had and still have today.  There is a good researcher, Terrance Boyle, who did a lot of work into this years ago, and his site is still found online.  Unfortunately, the site is dated, but it's still a wealth of information on the hundreds of men that are traditional bishops, and the various episcopal lines from which they come from:  www.tboyle.net/Catholicism/Outline.html

In my opinion, people do not grasp how big of a topic is until they look through his site.   Since the time of his last updates, there have been many more consecrations, known cases, and I am sure many unknown as well.