The forum Administrator, Voxx, has started a new subforum in the research section which will be dedicated to putting up all known information on the Traditional bishop lines, and in some cases, priests ordination information as well, so Catholics can make a good decision as to whether or not they want to get involved with them.
We will put information up to help Catholics not only trace these men’s orders, but post information about the various sects that have intertwined themselves with Catholic in regards to episcopal orders, such as the Old Catholics, the Duarte-Costa bishops, the Palmarians, Eastern “Orthodox,”, etc. Also, resources will be posted to inform others about the history, status, and character of these groups or men. Lastly, resources will be posted to help Catholics form a judgment as to the validity and liceity of the orders of the men claiming to be bishops.
Although the research section is restricted to certain contributors, members are still invited to start new threads with questions or information on the regular discussion part of this forum.
The forum Administrator, Voxx, has started a new subforum in the research section which will be dedicated to putting up all known information on the Traditional bishop lines, and in some cases priests orders as well, so Catholics can decide whether or not they want to get involved with them.
Wouldnt it be more accurate to say YOU started it. I just set up the subforum?
To hold the office of Pope is vacant due to heresy or death is utterly Catholic and within the Churchs teachings....to hold a dead man or heretic can hold the office is insanity and not Catholic at all ANON
I am scrapping the traditional bishop lineage subforum (Shepherds and Wolves). I gave asked Voxx to delete it. After having spent days, even weeks looking through all of the available information, I realize that I simply do not have the time to undertake this massive task of identifying all who have a claim to valid episcopal orders, and by that are “traditional bishops.” There are hundreds of these men, and as we do not know all of the secret consecrations, it could even be much higher. Also, we simply do not know enough about a lot of these men, such as what happned to many of the early bishops of Palma de Troya who were consecrated prior to the sacramental tampering that happened later.
I wanted to do this, as I think it needs to be done, but this task will have to fall to someone else who has the time to undertake this task. My hope was that by documenting this information, Catholics would have a resourse to find out at least some basic information about any of these men so as to begin learning what they could before considering requesting the sacraments from any of them.
Also, I am concerned that putting all of the bishops together may give the appearance of legitimizing some of the more “off base,” bishops with others that have behaved more reasonably.
If the “state of necessity” theology based on the modern traditionalist interpretation of “necessity knows no law,”is correct, and it is licit to consecrate bishops in this state of necessity based on the sole judgment of a valid consecrator, then logically if these principles are true, all of these men have claims to legitimacy as “traditional bishops.” Presuming they are validly consecrated, the only thing separating them are other issues, not their claims to be legitimately operating in the Church in the role of “traditional bishops.” For myself, I do not concede the initial premise, therefore, I do not accept that any of the consecrations are licit, although many, maybe most, are probably validly consecrated.
If anyone has any questions about a particular traditional bishop, feel free to post it, and I will try to help to get the information you need.
Last Edit: Apr 12, 2018 22:18:30 GMT -5 by Pacelli
Post by pauljoseph on Jan 27, 2019 13:21:51 GMT -5
I'd be interested in any Pope Pius XII intel relating to his attempts to smuggle priests behind the Iron Curtain. Of course Montini ratted some of them to Stalin and most were executed &/or 'gulaged'. Also curious why Montini was not excommunicated by Pius XII for his treason? It surely would have saved some trouble after Pius died.
Benjamin: But brother goeth to law with brother, and that before the unbelievers. Now therefore there is utterly a fault among you, because ye go to law one with another. Why do ye not rather take wrong? why do ye not rather suffer yourselves to be defrauded?
Apr 11, 2021 7:31:20 GMT -5
Pacelli: Lawsuits are very unfortunate, I agree. The money should not have been taken in the first place, or paid back once the canons were made clear that it could not have been taken, and it could have easily been avoided.
Apr 11, 2021 7:47:28 GMT -5
EricH: Hi Benjamin, perhaps it would have been better if I didn't file the lawsuit, but the Church doesn't teach that Catholics should avoid using the secular legal system.
Apr 11, 2021 10:48:35 GMT -5
EricH: I would have been happy to submit the matter to the judgment of a wise man who could judge between brethren. That is infinitely better than the secular legal system.
Apr 11, 2021 10:50:31 GMT -5
Benjamin: EricH-> Paul doesn't teach that believers should avoid using the secular legal system. In fact, Paul in Romans 13 makes it very clear that this very system is unavoidable.
Apr 11, 2021 19:50:18 GMT -5
Benjamin: Paul here, is exposing the rotten condition of the hearts of his brethren. By his rebuke, he's not forbidding them to use it (legal system), rather he explains how wicked and ungodly it is to expect justice from an unjust system run by non-believers.
Apr 11, 2021 19:59:56 GMT -5
Clotilde: That’s just so infuriatingly unjust. I know you’ve made peace, Eric. But still! I cannot fathom doing what they did. Thank you for warning others.
Apr 11, 2021 20:04:02 GMT -5
Benjamin: "All things are lawful unto me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but I will not be brought under the power of any." (1 Corinthians 6:12)
Apr 11, 2021 20:04:13 GMT -5
Benjamin: EricH-> I'll check out and the read the letter maybe tonight.
Apr 11, 2021 20:06:43 GMT -5
EricH: Thanks Clotilde and Benjamin
Apr 15, 2021 15:12:29 GMT -5
Benjamin: I like you guys. I will probably join this forum. I'm seriously thinking about becoming Catholic. I now know for sure that Protestantism is false. Where do I begin if all the Churches/Priests are corrupt? Am I too late??? I am scared and I fear the LORD...
Apr 16, 2021 17:14:59 GMT -5
Benjamin-01: P.S. EricH: I am sorry for what happened to you. I gather though, that these experiences have made you more resilient. Peace
Apr 16, 2021 18:02:26 GMT -5
Benjamin-01: And Moses said unto the people, Fear not: for God is come to prove you, and that his fear may be before your faces, that ye sin not. (Exodus 20:20)
Apr 16, 2021 18:23:56 GMT -5
Pacelli: Benjamin, you are not to late. Clearly God is moving you or you would not be open to this. The state of the Church is complicated right now, but it is still intact and the four marks are present, it's just harder to find right now.
Apr 16, 2021 18:51:54 GMT -5
Benjamin-01: Pacelli -> You got that part right! I've been looking for it (The TRUE Church) for seven (7) years...
Apr 16, 2021 22:33:10 GMT -5
inquirer: Hello Mr.Gadjewski. I am interested in the SSPX but am hesitant to make any steps towards involvement unless a couple of basic points can be clarified and I hope you would be able to help me to understand since you are an authority on the subject. 1) does
May 29, 2021 8:46:35 GMT -5
Pacelli: I think you have the wrong forum. There is no member here named Mr. Gadjewski.
May 29, 2021 10:46:09 GMT -5