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Post by Pacelli on Aug 9, 2017 12:49:14 GMT -5
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Post by Voxxkowalski on Aug 9, 2017 18:39:52 GMT -5
Problem is how can Ratzinger be Pope?
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Post by Clotilde on Aug 9, 2017 20:03:14 GMT -5
Problem is how can Ratzinger be Pope? Right?! However, these guys spent a ton of time saying that the sedevacantists were wrong. They now are faced with either admitting they were wrong about sedevacantism, or they can wait for Ratzinger to die, so they can take a quiet step into the sedevacantist camp. They are taking the second option, IMO.
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Post by Pacelli on Aug 9, 2017 22:19:01 GMT -5
Problem is how can Ratzinger be Pope? I agree, the belief in Ratzinger's claim is based on a pretended narrative of his orthodoxy. What I find amazing, though, is that Catholics are rejecting Francis' claim! Even if their reasoning is weak, it's a major breakthrough in my opinion.
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turin
New Member
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Post by turin on Aug 9, 2017 23:08:15 GMT -5
I was listening to resignationist Ann Barnhardt's podcast today and she admitted JPII and Benedict had heretical beliefs. She says this doesn't mean they weren't popes, and that their papacies were "valid but illicit" (like she believes about the new mass).
The resignationist people are so confused. What will they say when Benedict dies?
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Post by Clotilde on Aug 9, 2017 23:52:51 GMT -5
I was listening to resignationist Ann Barnhardt's podcast today and she admitted JPII and Benedict had heretical beliefs. She says this doesn't mean they weren't popes, and that their papacies were "valid but illicit" (like she believes about the new mass). The resignationist people are so confused. What will they say when Benedict dies? The more people who arrive at this conclusion, the better. All it will take is a few key people to get there.
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Post by kim on Aug 10, 2017 5:54:43 GMT -5
I was listening to resignationist Ann Barnhardt's podcast today and she admitted JPII and Benedict had heretical beliefs. She says this doesn't mean they weren't popes, and that their papacies were "valid but illicit" (like she believes about the new mass). The resignationist people are so confused. What will they say when Benedict dies? I just listened to that too. She said they were heretics but she still considered them popes. This makes no sense.
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Post by Pacelli on Aug 10, 2017 12:50:16 GMT -5
I was listening to resignationist Ann Barnhardt's podcast today and she admitted JPII and Benedict had heretical beliefs. She says this doesn't mean they weren't popes, and that their papacies were "valid but illicit" (like she believes about the new mass). The resignationist people are so confused. What will they say when Benedict dies? I agree, they are confused. I think all of them would be honest in saying that "resignationism" would not exist if Francis were like the real Popes, (pre-Vatican II), for example like St. Pius X. Could you imagine them defending Benedict's claim, as opposed to a real Pope who abolished the Novus Ordo, rejected all Conciliar teaching and began teaching pure Catholicism again, based on Benedict's supposed non-resignation? They reject Francis because of his flagrant heresies and scandal, and the pretext for this rejection is from a legal argument, the supposed failure of Benedict XVI to resign properly.
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Post by Lynne on Aug 10, 2017 13:06:47 GMT -5
I was listening to resignationist Ann Barnhardt's podcast today and she admitted JPII and Benedict had heretical beliefs. She says this doesn't mean they weren't popes, and that their papacies were "valid but illicit" (like she believes about the new mass). The resignationist people are so confused. What will they say when Benedict dies? Oh no! Another group?! The Resignationists?!!! I can't wait for the meteor (or whatever) to hit to end this craziness...
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Post by micah1199 on Aug 10, 2017 14:35:28 GMT -5
It is a good first step for many because some of them will make a second step and reject all the V2 heretics.
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Post by Voxxkowalski on Aug 10, 2017 17:20:38 GMT -5
I was listening to resignationist Ann Barnhardt's podcast today and she admitted JPII and Benedict had heretical beliefs. She says this doesn't mean they weren't popes, and that their papacies were "valid but illicit" (like she believes about the new mass). The resignationist people are so confused. What will they say when Benedict dies? Oh no! Another group?! The Resignationists?!!! I can't wait for the meteor (or whatever) to hit to end this craziness... This is Father Kramers position.
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turin
New Member
Posts: 45
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Post by turin on Aug 10, 2017 18:04:30 GMT -5
It's definitely a growing position. It is a step in the right direction but I wonder how many will go the full way. I bypassed this "step" altogether when I realized the folly of R&R.
A few observations I've made... among my SSPX friends some of the more "hard line" ones who haven't gone "Resistance" seem to be drifting this way, judging from their Facebook postings and some conversations we've had where they openly question Francis' validity. It seems to be discussed more openly now but even two years ago it would have gotten you funny looks. Then there's also a move towards the Bishop Schneider/OnePeterFive "fight the modernists from within" crowd. I've noticed that the latter group tend to be either children of well off families who've been involved in the Society for a long time and never knew the new mass, or they are people who've come to the SSPX/tradition in the past few years (not to generalize all of these people of course). I found this to be interesting.
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Post by micah1199 on Aug 10, 2017 18:23:51 GMT -5
These children never actually lived and experienced the depravity of the novus ordo Church and have a naïveté that comes from lack of experience in the actual novus ordo.
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