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Post by Didymus on Mar 11, 2023 15:39:28 GMT -5
Hello everyone, the other day reading some articles about confession, I remembered that in a conversation with a sedevacantist religious, we talked about the subject of Baptism in modernism, how sometimes many of these modernist priests replace the "AND" with a "OF THE " for example, "I so-and-so baptize you in the name OF THE Father, OF THE Son and OF THE Holy Spirit.
The priest said that even on those occasions the rite of baptism was considered valid despite this error of omitting the "AND" in each Person of the Trinity as mandated by the Church.
However, I have not been able to find anything in Sacramental Theology on this matter and especially this seems to me that it could also occur with some elderly priests who adhere to the changes of the CVII and could make the same mistake in absolution in the sacrament of confession, For example:
The correct thing would be to say: "I absolve you in the name of the Father AND of the Son AND of the Holy Spirit"
Some modernist priests could erroneously say: "In the name of the Father OF The Son OF THE Holy Spirit" using "of the" instead of "AND"
Do the Sacramental Theology books make any reference to this matter or if absolution is done in the vernacular or should Latin be necessary in the Latin rite? I honestly don't think it's necessary, but I'm curious about a book that can mention something about it or someone ever studied it.
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Post by Pacelli on Mar 11, 2023 20:31:42 GMT -5
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Post by Voxxkowalski on Mar 11, 2023 22:56:01 GMT -5
As if God would go...oops...sorry the Priest didn't use "And" ...off to hell with you!
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Post by Didymus on Mar 11, 2023 23:50:27 GMT -5
The whole book is scanned on archive.org linked HERE
Thank you Pacelli !!
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Post by Didymus on Mar 12, 2023 10:57:26 GMT -5
As if God would go...oops...sorry the Priest didn't use "And" ...off to hell with you! Yes, I know, but they are things that happen in traditionalism. Not a few are "re-baptized"
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Post by Voxxkowalski on Mar 12, 2023 12:49:13 GMT -5
well Ive learned as long term crisis Catholic to apply common sense many a time.
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Post by Didymus on Mar 12, 2023 13:16:41 GMT -5
well Ive learned as long term crisis Catholic to apply common sense many a time. Today I believe that in the face of so many errors it is better to express them, they can always help others even in what we can consider "absurd", times are really confusing and there is a very strong tendency to scruples given the rigorism or "sectarianism" that has steeped in traditionalism. This reminds me of a thread I read here about "circumcision", from certain groups apparently promoting that one would go to "hell" for practicing this medical act. what times!
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Post by Pacelli on Mar 12, 2023 14:38:47 GMT -5
well Ive learned as long term crisis Catholic to apply common sense many a time. Today I believe that in the face of so many errors it is better to express them, they can always help others even in what we can consider "absurd", times are really confusing and there is a very strong tendency to scruples given the rigorism or "sectarianism" that has steeped in traditionalism. This reminds me of a thread I read here about "circumcision", from certain groups apparently promoting that one would go to "hell" for practicing this medical act. what times! You are correct. We lack a Pope, so without him, who is confirming us in our Faith and keeping us from swaying to the left or to the right? It’s only the pre-Vatican II sources that we have to keep us from falling into errors. It’s interesting but I once knew a woman who did this, preached to whoever would listen that circumcision was evil, and even wrote a tract on it, totally oblivious to the fact that she was conflating the medical procedure done for a medical purpose only with one doing it because of holding the heresy that the law of circumcision is still in force. All of her sources were only dealing with the latter, while her teaching that this was an evil practice made no distinction as to the former! The woman who did this has since fallen away, so it shows where error leads in the end.
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Post by Didymus on Mar 12, 2023 17:05:51 GMT -5
Today I believe that in the face of so many errors it is better to express them, they can always help others even in what we can consider "absurd", times are really confusing and there is a very strong tendency to scruples given the rigorism or "sectarianism" that has steeped in traditionalism. This reminds me of a thread I read here about "circumcision", from certain groups apparently promoting that one would go to "hell" for practicing this medical act. what times! You are correct. We lack a Pope, so without him, who is confirming us in our Faith and keeping us from swaying to the left or to the right? It’s only the pre-Vatican II sources that we have to keep us from falling into errors. It’s interesting but I once knew a woman who did this, preached to whoever would listen that circumcision was evil, and even wrote a tract on it, totally oblivious to the fact that she was conflating the medical procedure done for a medical purpose only with one doing it because of holding the heresy that the law of circumcision is still in force. All of her sources were only dealing with the latter, while her teaching that this was an evil practice made no distinction as to the former! The woman who did this has since fallen away, so it shows where error leads in the end. Yes, I agree with you, and I think the reasoning or argument would also be the fact that today much of medicine is controlled by a few bodies of Jewish origin, so they would be "implementing circumcision among Gentiles to 'Judaize' them. The confused sheep trying to cling to the Church, end up succumbing to a rigorism so deep that it ends up separating them from what is real to invent something new, God save us from this.
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