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Post by Voxxkowalski on Nov 12, 2022 17:12:29 GMT -5
THE CHURCH SUPPLIES JURISDICTION TO ALL WHO REFUSE TO ACCEPT UNLAWFUL REFORMS
According to moral theology and canonical tradition, no authorization from the Novus Ordo establishment would be needed. The Novus Ordo establishment only grants permission to trads if they are willing to compromise their conscience by accepting the morally unacceptable conciliar reforms. It is unconditionally commanded by God that we observe the law of God regarding the purity of religious observance: and it is an absolute necessity of divine precept for the priests to provide the sacraments according to the traditional rites, for which reason, according to the principle of natural equity, the Church supplies all necessary jurisdiction and authorization when in a matter of necessity of precept they are wrongfully and unlawfully denied by the ordinary or the pope. The ecclesiastical authorities have no ecclesiastical power to suppress the correct observance of religion and penalize it by denying the faithful their right to legitimately requested authorizations. - "Everything must be done so that the church may be built up." 1 Cor. 14:26. "So even if I boast somewhat freely about the authority the Lord gave us for building you up rather than tearing you down, I will not be ashamed of it." - 2 Cor. 10:8.
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Post by Voxxkowalski on Nov 12, 2022 17:13:31 GMT -5
Ibid " The command made by Our Lord Jesus Christ to preach the Gospel, celebrate the Mass, and administer the sacraments is absolutely binding, as I explained in previous posts. If superiors forbid priests to celebrate Mass or administer the sacraments in accordance with divine law, or if they are commanded to violate divine law as a condition to exercise their sacred ministry, then, in virtue of natural equity they may exercise their ministry without the authorization of superiors, because Christ's command to exercize the ministry is of absolute necessity of precept, which is only excused by moral or physical impossibility. The necessity to receive a canonical mission jurisdiction, and faculties from an ecclesiastical superior is of relative necessity, for which the Church supplies by law in foreseen cases of necessity, and by natural equity in unforeseen or extraordinary cases, as has happened at various times in history."
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Post by EricH on Nov 12, 2022 17:38:53 GMT -5
Interesting! Could you add a link to the source please?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 12, 2022 19:12:02 GMT -5
We'll definitely need sources for this.
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Post by Voxxkowalski on Nov 13, 2022 7:42:28 GMT -5
Are you on fb...thats where he posted it
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Post by Voxxkowalski on Nov 13, 2022 7:44:05 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Nov 13, 2022 14:52:22 GMT -5
So there are no citations to back the statement in the comments section. What do you know of Trad Cath Knight who interviewed him?
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Post by Pacelli on Nov 13, 2022 15:20:25 GMT -5
THE CHURCH SUPPLIES JURISDICTION TO ALL WHO REFUSE TO ACCEPT UNLAWFUL REFORMS According to moral theology and canonical tradition, no authorization from the Novus Ordo establishment would be needed. The Novus Ordo establishment only grants permission to trads if they are willing to compromise their conscience by accepting the morally unacceptable conciliar reforms. It is unconditionally commanded by God that we observe the law of God regarding the purity of religious observance: and it is an absolute necessity of divine precept for the priests to provide the sacraments according to the traditional rites, for which reason, according to the principle of natural equity, the Church supplies all necessary jurisdiction and authorization when in a matter of necessity of precept they are wrongfully and unlawfully denied by the ordinary or the pope. The ecclesiastical authorities have no ecclesiastical power to suppress the correct observance of religion and penalize it by denying the faithful their right to legitimately requested authorizations. - "Everything must be done so that the church may be built up." 1 Cor. 14:26. "So even if I boast somewhat freely about the authority the Lord gave us for building you up rather than tearing you down, I will not be ashamed of it." - 2 Cor. 10:8. I do not agree with this portion of his statement: Fr. Kramer stated: “ the Church supplies all necessary jurisdiction and authorization when in a matter of necessity of precept they are wrongfully and unlawfully denied by the ordinary or the pope.” He does not give any sources for it, as they don’t exist, and it is not supported by canon 209, the canon which legislates supplied jurisdiction and how the conditions must be met in order for the Church to supply. The reason he gives for the supply of jurisdiction is not found in canon 209. There is no law of the Church that supplies jurisdiction for the reason he is stating.
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Post by Voxxkowalski on Nov 13, 2022 15:40:11 GMT -5
That entire portion? Some of it seems accurate...can you be more precise as to where the error lies?
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Post by Voxxkowalski on Nov 13, 2022 15:42:34 GMT -5
So there are no citations to back the statement in the comments section. What do you know of Trad Cath Knight who interviewed him? Not a gajewski fan as he comes off as a grifter to me...I have as much access to Good Father Kramer as him. As far as citations...These are Fathers direct posts so I assume he has this in his own mind
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Post by Deleted on Nov 13, 2022 16:25:11 GMT -5
THE CHURCH SUPPLIES JURISDICTION TO ALL WHO REFUSE TO ACCEPT UNLAWFUL REFORMS According to moral theology and canonical tradition, no authorization from the Novus Ordo establishment would be needed. The Novus Ordo establishment only grants permission to trads if they are willing to compromise their conscience by accepting the morally unacceptable conciliar reforms. It is unconditionally commanded by God that we observe the law of God regarding the purity of religious observance: and it is an absolute necessity of divine precept for the priests to provide the sacraments according to the traditional rites, for which reason, according to the principle of natural equity, the Church supplies all necessary jurisdiction and authorization when in a matter of necessity of precept they are wrongfully and unlawfully denied by the ordinary or the pope. The ecclesiastical authorities have no ecclesiastical power to suppress the correct observance of religion and penalize it by denying the faithful their right to legitimately requested authorizations. - "Everything must be done so that the church may be built up." 1 Cor. 14:26. "So even if I boast somewhat freely about the authority the Lord gave us for building you up rather than tearing you down, I will not be ashamed of it." - 2 Cor. 10:8. I do not agree with this portion of his statement: Fr. Kramer stated: “ the Church supplies all necessary jurisdiction and authorization when in a matter of necessity of precept they are wrongfully and unlawfully denied by the ordinary or the pope.” He does not give any sources for it, as they don’t exist, and it is not supported by canon 209, the canon which legislates supplied jurisdiction and how the conditions must be met in order for the Church to supply. The reason he gives for the supply of jurisdiction is not found in canon 209. There is no law of the Church that supplies jurisdiction for the reason he is stating. Thanks for clarifying Pacelli. I didn't think it could be as simple as Fr Kramer asserted. Everyone would be saying the same thing if it were.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 13, 2022 16:35:24 GMT -5
So there are no citations to back the statement in the comments section. What do you know of Trad Cath Knight who interviewed him? Not a gajewski fan as he comes off as a grifter to me...I have as much access to Good Father Kramer as him. As far as citations...These are Fathers direct posts so I assume he has this in his own mind What kind of access do you have to Fr Kramer? Are you able to seek clarification from him as to what his sources are?
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Post by Voxxkowalski on Nov 14, 2022 13:11:50 GMT -5
Forgive me but I thought that was your positiin..that the Church supplies during crisis...not being combative..but really I thought thats what you say too...but I am not as smart as you ( not sarcasm)
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Post by Pacelli on Nov 14, 2022 22:59:57 GMT -5
Forgive me but I thought that was your positiin..that the Church supplies during crisis...not being combative..but really I thought thats what you say too...but I am not as smart as you ( not sarcasm) You may be smarter than me, who knows. What matters here is that the Church does not supply unless the conditions are met. What Fr. Kramer is describing in his scenario are not the conditions for which the Church supplies. His view is very common among SSPX adherents, but is not grounded in Canon Law. To say it plainly: it's a made up novelty, that in the minds of those saying it gives the SSPX and/or resistance priests a greater claim to do what they are doing and maybe even more than what they are doing. The problem is that it's just made up nonsense with no basis in canon law, so if it's not found there, where is it found? Nowhere? That's what I am seeing.
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Post by Voxxkowalski on Nov 15, 2022 9:58:28 GMT -5
Can you express the difference for me.( seriously..Im missing something)
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