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Post by exclusivesalvation on May 29, 2016 0:19:49 GMT -5
REMOVED
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Post by exclusivesalvation on May 29, 2016 0:22:23 GMT -5
REMOVED
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Post by exclusivesalvation on May 29, 2016 0:23:21 GMT -5
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Post by Pacelli on May 29, 2016 19:01:09 GMT -5
I have not examined these videos yet, but Catholics should be warned in advance that Fr. Watham, unfortunately, was infected with the Feeneyite heresy. I will review these videos for any mention of the heresy, and then with the moderators decide whether they need to go.
This forum is dedicated to maintaining only the teachings of the Catholic Faith. Heresy will not be allowed here.
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Post by Pacelli on May 30, 2016 17:43:30 GMT -5
I have removed the posts above for the following reasons:
1. The videos teach the error that only members of the Church can be saved. This is directly contradicted by Mystici Corporis of Pope Pius XII, and the August 8, 1949 Holy Office letter.
2. The priest in question has been known for publicly and notoriously promoting heretical and erroneous ideas on Baptism of Desire and Baptism of Blood.
3. Even if some of his teaching is good, Catholics should never promote those who teach and promote heretical ideas against the Faith.
4. While the videos contained some good, a drop of poison intermingled with a nutritious meal is enough to kill, and in the same way, even a drop of heresy is enough to kill a soul.
5. This forum cannot tolerate those who promote heresy or doctrinal error.
6. I will, however, post approved Catholic sources to help Catholics understand Catholic teaching on salvation, Baptism, Baptism of Desire, and Baptism of Blood.
7. I would urge Catholics to only learn their Faith from approved sources and avoid any groups, priests, or other unauthorized individuals who teach a doctrine different from the approved catechisms, theology manuals, or other approved books.
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recusant
Approved Cath Resource contributor
Posts: 86
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Post by recusant on May 30, 2016 20:11:21 GMT -5
NO Watch did a very good "Tradcast" on the subject of EENS:
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Post by Pacelli on May 31, 2016 13:31:34 GMT -5
Recusant,
Good post. He did a superb job of explaining a very complex subject. When I get some time, I will be be posting here approved works and authoritative teaching on this subject for those who want to learn more, but for now I highly recommend the tradcast you posted.
In only 30 minutes he succinctly and dispassionately untangles the Feeneyite bowl of spaghetti.
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Post by Voxxkowalski on May 31, 2016 15:15:39 GMT -5
exclusivesalvation posted the vids in good faith with no ill intention...BUT Pacelli is in charge and knowledgable. This area of the forum...TC Index will be for threads that must be moderated but not necessarily completely deleted.
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Post by Damaged Goods on Aug 16, 2016 10:42:21 GMT -5
1. The videos teach the error that only members of the Church can be saved. This is directly contradicted by Mystici Corporis of Pope Pius XII, and the August 8, 1949 Holy Office letter. It takes a special kind of pedantry to condemn a teaching that was held universally throughout the Church for some 1500 years and given multiple dogmatic definitions on the basis of one word in an encyclical and a non-binding letter supporting a heretical cardinal.
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Post by Voxxkowalski on Aug 16, 2016 10:50:18 GMT -5
1. The videos teach the error that only members of the Church can be saved. This is directly contradicted by Mystici Corporis of Pope Pius XII, and the August 8, 1949 Holy Office letter. It takes a special kind of pedantry to condemn a teaching that was held universally throughout the Church for some 1500 years and given multiple dogmatic definitions on the basis of one word in an encyclical and a non-binding letter supporting a heretical cardinal. Please do not insult or 2nd guess the moderators.
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Post by Pacelli on Aug 16, 2016 11:07:24 GMT -5
1. The videos teach the error that only members of the Church can be saved. This is directly contradicted by Mystici Corporis of Pope Pius XII, and the August 8, 1949 Holy Office letter. It takes a special kind of pedantry to condemn a teaching that was held universally throughout the Church for some 1500 years and given multiple dogmatic definitions on the basis of one word in an encyclical and a non-binding letter supporting a heretical cardinal. Baptism of Desire and Blood are the part of the teaching of the Catholic Church. To deny either of them is at best sufficient matter for mortal sin, and for the denial of Baptism of Desire, it is heretical. Since the Council of Trent, the denial of Baptism of Desire, can no longer be tolerated, as it is directly taught in Council, giving it the note of de Fide, as St. Alphonsus teaches. You are incorrect about the 1949 Holy Office Letter, it is binding as it was approved by the Pope and ordered published. In regards to the papal encyclicals, you are not free to dissent even from one word, you must believe the Pope's teaching as Our Lord commanded, "he who hears you, hears me."
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Post by Damaged Goods on Aug 16, 2016 12:21:27 GMT -5
Baptism of Desire and Blood are the part of the teaching of the Catholic Church. To deny either of them is at best sufficient matter for mortal sin, and for the denial of Baptism of Desire, it is heretical. Baptism of Desire and Blood are not at issue here. The obligation of interior assent to the teaching of the Authentic Magisterium is not absolute, and given your rigorist views on the subject it's a wonder you don't simply bite the bullet and accept Vatican II "in the light of Tradition". Here Bp. de Castro Mayer explains the circumstances under which the obligation can become void: Nonetheless, this obligation [of interior assent] ceases when two conditions are present in the same case : a) when it is manifest that the universal Episcopate [in union with the Pope] did not have the intention of binding consciences in a definitive manner, and furthermore b) when it is clear that such a document of the universal Episcopate contradicts a doctrine which has already been established as certain through the Ordinary Magisterium of a long series of popes.Bp. Guérard de Lauriers was of the same mind; he did not hold that Vatican II was illegitimate because of the errors alone, but because he interpreted the text of Dignitatis Humanae as teaching religious liberty with a note of de fide Divina et Catholica. Regarding Mystici Corporis, there's nothing objectionable at all in the encyclical; the word in question is ordinentur, which means "ordained" or "directed" and aptly describes the position relative to the Church of those who, while outside Her, cooperate with actual grace. Translations muddy the waters by making it appear as though Pius XII was teaching that salvation is possible for those who, while outside the Church, maintain a "certain relationship" with Her, but nowhere did he affirm this. The putative Holy Office letter did not appear in Acta Apostolicae Sedis, and as such does not require even interior assent (as canon law specifies that inclusion in A.A.S. is the criterion for identifying authentic magisterial teaching). Since the claims that Pius XII approved the letter and ordered its publication came exclusively from those who disseminated it (and were never, as far as I know, confirmed publicly by the Pope himself), they are highly dubious and should not be taken at face value (especially given that Masonic infiltration of the Vatican was in full swing by then).
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recusant
Approved Cath Resource contributor
Posts: 86
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Post by recusant on Aug 17, 2016 15:41:10 GMT -5
DG,
I think it would be helpful if you could explain the position you hold. For instance, Do you or do you not believe that someone can be in a state of sanctifying grace and thus go to heaven without the actual sacrament of Baptism?
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Post by Pacelli on Aug 19, 2016 15:07:40 GMT -5
DG, I think it would be helpful if you could explain the position you hold. For instance, Do you or do you not believe that someone can be in a state of sanctifying grace and thus go to heaven without the actual sacrament of Baptism? I agree, and second the request for DG. Do you believe that an unbaptized person in the state of grace can be saved? Secondly, do you submit to the 1949 Holy Office letter explaining EENS approved by Pope Pius XII?
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Post by Damaged Goods on Aug 19, 2016 15:54:44 GMT -5
As I said in the other thread, I believe in the possibility of Baptism of Desire for those who, believing and knowing that membership in the Church is necessary for salvation, form the resolution to join Her. See above for my thoughts on Suprema Haec.
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