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Post by Clotilde on Sept 26, 2017 11:19:13 GMT -5
I've noticed that many traditionalists do not have any friends Catholic or otherwise. I realize this is somewhat of an anomaly in history, as the norm in the past was that Catholics were always very close and tight-knit. Below are some food-for-thought questions.
Do you have Catholic friends? Do you spend recreational time with them? Do you like having them in your home? Would you trust them with your children? Do you evaluate their Catholicity on the basis of your own ideas? Do you, in general, desire friendship in the first place, or does the idea of a brief acquaintanceship appeal more to you?
Have you parted ways with other Catholics? If so, do you still speak? Has the nature of your dispute been moral, doctrinal, or personal? Do you find that most Catholics make loyal friends? Have you parted ways with many people or few in relation to the overall total of friendships you have made?
Why do you think some of these friendships suffer? Does the Crisis play a part? Lack of unifying Catholic culture? Does the internet play a role in harming or facilitating interactions and friendships?
What virutes can Catholics cultivate to enable themselves to become better friends and to avoid strife among their brothers in the Faith?
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Post by jen51 on Sept 26, 2017 13:25:26 GMT -5
Do you have Catholic friends? -yes
Do you spend recreational time with them? -yes
Do you like having them in your home? -yes
Would you trust them with your children? -Most of them. We have some Catholic friends who are not trads, and some of them I would not leave my children alone with out of fear of them or their children scandalizing my children in some way. Not intentionally, of course. Having said that, we have never left our children with any of them, mainly because they are too young.
Do you evaluate their Catholicity based on you own ideas? -Honestly, it's hard not to. My husband and I both are steadily learning that we have judged too quicklly in the past, and need to be on guard against it. One must always discern, but should not be so proud to think you are more pious than your neighbor.
Does friendship appeal to you or brief aquaintaceship? -Friendship, for sure. I moved to where my husband was living when we got married, so I became friends with his friends. I consider them all good friends, but I've not had a real close connection with any of the women within our group of friends. I miss a "best friend" like I've had in nearly all stages of life, but I tend to think that once you get married and have kids, close intimate friendships aren't possible. For me that's how it is, anyway. I only have the time and mental energy to cultivate intimate relationships with my husband and children. This could change once the kids grow up, I'm sure.
Have you parted ways with other Catholics? -In terms of friendship, yes. It's almost always mutual. There may be some feelings of annoyance on both sides, but we are still friendly with one another. The disputes have been moral and doctrinal, which naturally flow into personal.
Do you find most Catholics to be loyal friends? -If they are serious Catholics, then yes, one cannot find more loyal friends.
Have you parted ways with many or few in comparison to the total relationships you have made? -we tend to make friends with those who share similar ideas about the faith. While getting to know them, if the gap between our ideals is too wide, then a close friendship is not pursued, but rather a friendly aquaintence. Doing it this way, we don't part with many, but we also don't get close with just anyone.
I'll speak of Catholic culture a bit within our group of friends. It's not unusual to get together for a hog roast. During the course of the evening there will be lots of music, both singing and instrumental. Lots of storytelling, and lots of laughter and conviviality. At some point in the evening, there is generally a Rosary said, as well as toasts. The place is always bustling with noisy, happy children. At these parties you will find Catholics of many stripes. Some shun the NO altogether, others attend the NO only when there is no other option. Some of the women are exclusively skirt wearers, others see nothing wrong with pants. There could be many disagreements amongst such a diverse crowd, but those issues are not what we gather around each other about. All of us are serious in the Faith. All of us are doing the best that we know how to do during these confusing times, and we all encourage each other towards heaven. I didn't have this wonderful Catholic community before, and I am so thankful for it now. With young children, it is hard to socialize as much as we would like, and we do have to travel a bit to see everyone. Aside from the large gatherings, we enjoy having single families over for dinner, and going to another families house for dinner.
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Post by udoc89 on Sept 26, 2017 19:32:44 GMT -5
I honestly don’t know any but NO Catholics. My husband and I are converts from 20 years ago and are both in our 60s. Fortunately, our small Texas town has a Latin Mass. But only about 20 or so attend it weekly. Nobody socializes after Mass, and most are younger than we are. Guess that’s a good thing. We drive into Houston if the priest is out of town. He goes home to Poland once a year.
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Post by jen51 on Sept 26, 2017 21:30:38 GMT -5
I honestly don’t know any but NO Catholics. My husband and I are converts from 20 years ago and are both in our 60s. Fortunately, our small Texas town has a Latin Mass. But only about 20 or so attend it weekly. Nobody socializes after Mass, and most are younger than we are. Guess that’s a good thing. We drive into Houston if the priest is out of town. He goes home to Poland once a year. This is the first post I've seen from you. Welcome!
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Post by Voxxkowalski on Sept 26, 2017 21:40:16 GMT -5
Well all of you! I am friends with a Ukrainian priest but I dont see him but rarely...I have an old cantankerous friend who can be credited with bringing me fully into Traddom...but now he us stuck in semitrad world because he cant accept the sede opinion. I have several secular friends...but of them I only trust a couple with personal stuff.
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Post by Clotilde on Sept 26, 2017 21:47:35 GMT -5
I honestly don’t know any but NO Catholics. My husband and I are converts from 20 years ago and are both in our 60s. Fortunately, our small Texas town has a Latin Mass. But only about 20 or so attend it weekly. Nobody socializes after Mass, and most are younger than we are. Guess that’s a good thing. We drive into Houston if the priest is out of town. He goes home to Poland once a year. Most people don't socialize after mass. I was more optimistic about it when I was younger but I have absolutely no desire now. I'm usually the only person with children and the closest in age to my children. I have found that coffee hour on a Sunday doesn't really do much for us in the long run. Having people over and unwinding with leisure activities has yielded better results and I find it very enjoyable.
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Post by Marya Dabrowski on Sept 26, 2017 23:18:33 GMT -5
Do you have Catholic friends? Yes, trad and NO. But I have come to realize that no family we are friends with is exactly like us. We differ from every single one in some way(s), either religious views, raising children views, thoughts of money views, or something else. I do wish we had a family we could agree with more on, but I figure it's a cross. If we did know that family perhaps we wouldn't associate with any others and that would be a bad thing.
Do you spend recreational time with them? Yes. We have get togethers with sedes, spixies, NO families, all at different times and sometimes all at once. No one brings up "hot topics", at least not yet.
Do you like having them in your home? I do, but my husband hates company. He'll tolerate it every couple months.
Would you trust them with your children? I trust no one with my children. Except Grandparents.
Do you evaluate their Catholicity on the basis of your own ideas? Of course, but I try not to show it.
Do you, in general, desire friendship in the first place, or does the idea of a brief acquaintanceship appeal more to you? I would enjoy a friend/family who I agreed with the majority of daily life decisions on.
Have you parted ways with other Catholics? I've distanced myself from some. Or, we distanced each other. Others have distanced themselves from us. We irritated family by not attending a second questionable marriage, so things are tense. That was one issue.
If so, do you still speak? Yes, but rarely.
Do you find that most Catholics make loyal friends? I think when you have the same faith you work harder at staying close and friendly and try not to let differences bother you.
Have you parted ways with many people or few in relation to the overall total of friendships you have made? I have very little friends from before I became a practicing traditional Catholic, but for us it also has to do with having lots of kids. You tend to stay friends with others who have lots of kids or at least were open to the idea. Once you go over the two kid mark you'll lose some friends who will only have 2. Once you get over the 5 mark you lose some who think that's the limit.
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Post by Marya Dabrowski on Sept 27, 2017 21:53:16 GMT -5
What about you, Clotilde?
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Post by Lynne on Sept 29, 2017 7:10:09 GMT -5
I have no friends or family who practice the faith in any shape or form...
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Post by Clotilde on Sept 29, 2017 11:03:50 GMT -5
I've noticed that many traditionalists do not have any friends Catholic or otherwise. I realize this is somewhat of an anomaly in history, as the norm in the past was that Catholics were always very close and tight-knit. Below are some food-for-thought questions. Do you have Catholic friends? Do you spend recreational time with them? Do you like having them in your home? Would you trust them with your children? Do you evaluate their Catholicity on the basis of your own ideas? Do you, in general, desire friendship in the first place, or does the idea of a brief acquaintanceship appeal more to you? Have you parted ways with other Catholics? If so, do you still speak? Has the nature of your dispute been moral, doctrinal, or personal? Do you find that most Catholics make loyal friends? Have you parted ways with many people or few in relation to the overall total of friendships you have made? Why do you think some of these friendships suffer? Does the Crisis play a part? Lack of unifying Catholic culture? Does the internet play a role in harming or facilitating interactions and friendships? What virutes can Catholics cultivate to enable themselves to become better friends and to avoid strife among their brothers in the Faith? I have friends who are Catholic but I do not communicate with them regularly. I usually check in on them from time to time. I've been friends with them for a long time. We are sort of in the old friend stage. They live far away. Two in particular, I have known since I was a teenager. I'm not their best friend, or closest friend but we pray for one another and we are always happy to hear from each other. I do spend recreational time with Catholics of various stripes. I don't like having some traditionalists in my home so I try to only invite the people I want and trust here. I would trust my children's godparents who are still practicing the Faith but I also know a few non-Catholics, while not my closest friends, that I would leave my kids with because they are naturally very good. When I was younger I worried about every little point on every matter with regard to friendships. I think I was only interested in those who conformed to all of my ideas. Now that I'm older, I feel like I have a better sense of what is actually dangerous and what is a distraction. Also, what is pride. I've learned to keep my mouth shut on things that are not my business. I enjoy different degrees of friendship. Closeness with other Catholics has come with a heafty price tag, and I've paid for it. I've seen many qualities in others that I've wished to root out of myself. Friends are sort of a reflection of who you are, and I haven't been interested in friendship with most traditionalists. Actually, I've shyed away more than ever in recent years. I have parted ways with nearly every traditionalist Catholic friend I've had. Most of the time it was their personality. Sometimes they left the Faith, other times they let the crazy out. Some had qualities that I did not like and wanted to root out of myself. When I stepped back, or worked on those faults, we grew apart, or a conflict helped things along. Never on a point of doctrine, on my part. Some people like me based on where we go to mass, or the reverse. I have rarely found a loyal friend among Catholics, unfortunately. There are a few that I think are exceptional and amazing. The others? They would sell me out in a heartbeat. I think the Internet makes these friendship and loyalty suffer. Anyone can say or do anything with no consequences. People are careless with reputations and they will give up a name easily. Many Catholics are two-faced and nasty people, while they might be able to hide that fault better in person, it comes out online. People treat others like they are disposable online. It baffles me that some of these people are weekly Communicants. Here in these times, some of the last remaining Catholics have access to the very few sacraments available on earth and they cannot live in peace with their fellow Catholics. I often think the Crisis is what is deforming people, so I have to remember that I should pray for them, and trust God's Mercy. They are disfigured without pastors, confessors, functional parishes, and they've been robbed of their Catholic culture which would normally unify them. Still, it makes them undesirable to be around. Personally, I think Catholics in general need to emulate the first Catholics and try to live peacefully with one another. I think we should overlook disagreements on disputed points and trust more in God to work out the situation in the Church. We should stop worrying about and idolizing our personal theological positions on every little point, and just be kind, loyal people. Go to mass, have a barbeque, let the kids run around and play, drink a few beers, and just be good Catholics together in the same space.
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Post by Voxxkowalski on Sept 29, 2017 21:35:44 GMT -5
And what was all that supposed to mean!!!!😉
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Post by Clotilde on Sept 29, 2017 22:29:05 GMT -5
And what was all that supposed to mean!!!!😉 It means I'm still hurt that you ditched my Labor Day BBQ.
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Post by Barbara on Sept 30, 2017 11:33:11 GMT -5
Le bon dieu has blessed me with wonderful Catholic friends since I began attending the Latin Mass exclusively 12 years ago, and prior to that. How can I thank the friends who prayed for me to return to the Church when I was away, and persisted in inviting me to attend Mass with them?
In the past 12 years I have moved 3 times geographically and at least that many times doctrinally, to where I now hold the sedevacantist position. There have been partings of the way for either of those reasons, though I still keep in touch with people from all my previous phases.
Being unmarried, I have a particular need of friends, and almost all of them are married with children, or have been married and now are widowed or divorced. They honor me with their confidences and invitations, and I try to repay them with prayers. They also are there for me and have accompanied me through some dark times.
I work hardest at maintaining my friendship with Jesus and Mary, with all the helps and devotions that the Church gives us. If anyone reading this has lost that friendship through mortal sin (as I have done in the past), please restore that relationship immediately. Jesus and Mary need your friendship, now more than ever, when they have so few to console them.
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Post by jen51 on Sept 30, 2017 20:18:03 GMT -5
I have no friends or family who practice the faith in any shape or form...
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Post by Voxxkowalski on Sept 30, 2017 23:14:44 GMT -5
And what was all that supposed to mean!!!!😉 It means I'm still hurt that you ditched my Labor Day BBQ. Im hurt I never got the INVITE!
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