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Post by Pacelli on Sept 13, 2017 6:04:02 GMT -5
Convert from "Orthodoxy" Becomes Russian Rite Byzantine Catholic priest
LINK
November 8 of this year (2011) witnessed an extremely rare event: the priestly ordination, in Russia and according to the Byzantine Rite, of a Russian Orthodox convert to Catholicism. On this day, Fr. Deacon Pavel (Paul) Gladkov was ordained by Bishop Milan Šášik of the Carpatho-Rusyn Greek Catholic Eparchy of Mukachevo in the Latin-Rite Cathedral of the Transfiguration in Novosibirsk (in Siberia). The new priest was born into Russian Orthodoxy in 1982 and became Catholic in 1999. The ceremony itself was according to the Byzantine Rite with some elements of the Latin liturgical tradition (such as the prostration for the Litany of Saints, which has been adopted by some Eastern Catholics for their ordination rites.) The new priest is now one of about 20 Greek Catholic priests serving the small but growing community of Greek Catholics in Russia, of whom only a minority -- sometimes called "Russian Orthodox United with Rome" -- worship according to the Russian tradition (the majority are from Ukraine and follow the Ukrainian Greek Catholic tradition). He is part of a minority (Russian Greek Catholics) in a minority (Greek Catholics) in a minority (Catholics) in Russia. (The vast majority of Catholics in Russia belong to the Latin Rite.) The Greek Catholic community in Russia is governed by Bishop Joseph Werth S.J. who is also the Latin-Rite Ordinary for the Diocese of the Transfiguration in Novosibirsk. (Bishop Werth is biritual and was present in Byzantine vestments at the ordination of Fr. Pavel Gladkov.) SOURCE
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Post by wenceslav on Oct 9, 2017 12:48:16 GMT -5
Hi Pacelli,
Thanks for this this interesting story and sorry for making a comment so late after you posted it about a month ago. I’m catching up on Vox’s great Forum since I have a bit of time today - Canadian Thanksgiving 🇨🇦.
Its wonderful that that this young man converted to Greek Catholicism but at best he’s a doubtful priest since his ordaining Bishop ( Milan Šášik ) was ordained in the Novus Ordo by a new-Rite Novus Ordo Bishop(Grabis). Additionally Milan Šášik was consecrated Bishop in the new Rite by JPII.
I think this this will become an increasing problem as more biritual bishops from the conciliar church are appointed to Ukrainian Bishoprics or NO bishops lend a hand in ordaining Ukrainian candidates to the priesthood.
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Post by Pacelli on Oct 9, 2017 20:49:04 GMT -5
Hi Pacelli, Thanks for this this interesting story and sorry for making a comment so late after you posted it about a month ago. I’m catching up on Vox’s great Forum since I have a bit of time today - Canadian Thanksgiving 🇨🇦. Its wonderful that that this young man converted to Greek Catholicism but at best he’s a doubtful priest since his ordaining Bishop ( Milan Šášik ) was ordained in the Novus Ordo by a new-Rite Novus Ordo Bishop(Grabis). Additionally Milan Šášik was consecrated Bishop in the new Rite by JPII. I think this this will become an increasing problem as more biritual bishops from the conciliar church are appointed to Ukrainian Bishoprics or NO bishops lend a hand in ordaining Ukrainian candidates to the priesthood. Happy Thankgiving! Thanks for this, I saw the article, and was happy to see a recent convert from schism, and did not look into the ordaining bishop. I agree with you on this, and it is a sad thing that this man wanted to escape his schism, to enter the true Church, only to enter a distaster instead. I would not trust his holy orders. Unfortunately, his holy orders are doubtful, and he must be avoided until the Church tells us how to handle this. I agree that it is a problem that Conciliar orders are breaking into the eastern rites. I found and documented another case of this in my eastern rites bishops thread that was found in the Ruthenian rite. tradcath.proboards.com/thread/954/eastern-rite-bishops-united-states Unfortunately, every priest ordained by this bishop is suspect as to the validity of their orders.
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Post by kim on Oct 15, 2017 10:34:53 GMT -5
Do any Eastern rite Catholics like yourselves who doubt the new rites of Paul VI ever openly voice this concern? I mean the problem will only get worse---and we may all have to retreat to sede Latin chapels if it becomes pervasive enough. I fell in love with the Byzantine instantly and this is scary.
Are you afraid you might be excommunicated if you voice your concerns? And do you think there are many other Eastern Catholics (clergy included) that are even aware that this might be a problem?
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Post by Pacelli on Oct 15, 2017 11:04:51 GMT -5
Do any Eastern rite Catholics like yourselves who doubt the new rites of Paul VI ever openly voice this concern? I mean the problem will only get worse---and we may all have to retreat to sede Latin chapels if it becomes pervasive enough. I fell in love with the Byzantine instantly and this is scary. Are you afraid you might be excommunicated if you voice your concerns? And do you think there are many other Eastern Catholics (clergy included) that are even aware that this might be a problem? Many eastern rite priests don't get these issues. Maybe their just sticking their heads in the sand, hoping they can hide and not have to face these issues. Lets face it, even among the Roman rite Catholics, there is not agreement on almost everything. The SSPX, the largest of all traditionalist groups, which is far larger than all other groups, Sede and non-Sede put together, publicly asserts through their publications that the Paul VI rite is valid. They even allow such priests to work in their chapels without conditional ordination. Logically speaking, if you accept Paul VI as Pope, you must in order to be consistent accept the validity of the sacramental rites that came from him. The eastern rites and SSPX both first need to see that Paul VI was not a Catholic, that he was a heretic and enemy of the Faith before they can piece together the other matters such as this one.
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Post by Pacelli on Oct 15, 2017 11:51:05 GMT -5
Do any Eastern rite Catholics like yourselves who doubt the new rites of Paul VI ever openly voice this concern? I mean the problem will only get worse--- and we may all have to retreat to sede Latin chapels if it becomes pervasive enough. I fell in love with the Byzantine instantly and this is scary. Are you afraid you might be excommunicated if you voice your concerns? And do you think there are many other Eastern Catholics (clergy included) that are even aware that this might be a problem? I missed this point, in my last post. I don't see it as an option for me to go back to trad chapels. I've been there, done that. If the eastern rites completely fall to the sect, I will make an annual trip to a lawful Roman rite priest, so long as God keeps these priests with us. I have no desire to go to these chapels.
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Post by kim on Oct 16, 2017 3:20:06 GMT -5
Do any Eastern rite Catholics like yourselves who doubt the new rites of Paul VI ever openly voice this concern? I mean the problem will only get worse--- and we may all have to retreat to sede Latin chapels if it becomes pervasive enough. I fell in love with the Byzantine instantly and this is scary. Are you afraid you might be excommunicated if you voice your concerns? And do you think there are many other Eastern Catholics (clergy included) that are even aware that this might be a problem? I missed this point, in my last post. I don't see it as an option for me to go back to trad chapels. I've been there, done that. If the eastern rites completely fall to the sect, I will make an annual trip to a lawful Roman rite priest, so long as God keeps these priests with us. I have no desire to go to these chapels. Do you dislike the trad chapels for some of the same reasons I mentioned earlier? Or do you just not like the Roman rite? Just curious. What a confusing mess. An Eastern rite catholic priest may not be a priest after all. Yet a schismatic Orthodox priest is considered to have valid orders. If one's search is only for the certainty of validity, what keeps one from going over to the Orthodox in this pursuit?
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Post by Pacelli on Oct 16, 2017 11:33:55 GMT -5
I missed this point, in my last post. I don't see it as an option for me to go back to trad chapels. I've been there, done that. If the eastern rites completely fall to the sect, I will make an annual trip to a lawful Roman rite priest, so long as God keeps these priests with us. I have no desire to go to these chapels. Do you dislike the trad chapels for some of the same reasons I mentioned earlier? Or do you just not like the Roman rite? Just curious. What a confusing mess. An Eastern rite catholic priest may not be a priest after all. Yet a schismatic Orthodox priest is considered to have valid orders. If one's search is only for the certainty of validity, what keeps one from going over to the Orthodox in this pursuit? It's not about a personal dislike of the trad chapels, I could put up with that. It's just, in my opinion, the groups that we see are not sticking with minimalism in their roles, and are changing over time, and are beginning to mimic the legitimate hierarchy. This is very dangerous. As I have said previously, not all groups are the same, and some are not as dangerous as others. I do know of some traditionalist priests who I consider friends who have the same concerns as I, so I am not the only one seeing this. Regarding the holy orders of the eastern rites, they are almost always safe. The deviations from this are not common. I only urge checking them out from an abundance of caution, there are some Novus Ordo transfers, although they are few and far between. By saying this, I am not minimizing this issue, just keeping it in perspective. I also would not tell a Catholic to avoid SSPX on the grounds that they allow priests with Paul VI orders, just avoid those priests and chapels where they say mass. Validity of the sacraments is one important issue, but it is not the only issue. When the orthodox left the Church, they stole the sacraments and brought them with them. They also usurped the powers of the hierrachy in order to rule over the flock of Christ. I concede that they have unquestionably valid sacraments, but they are outside the Church. To join a sect is to leave the Church, and the sacraments will not help you in that situation, as outside of the Church there is no salvation. To even actively assist at sectarian worship is a mortal sin, even if you do not join the sect. The Vatican II sect has deviated from Catholic teaching on this matter, and has made the "orthodox" appear as a legitimate part of the Church, and we are only separated by misunderstandings of the past. This is all hogwash. There was no misunderstanding. They knowingly left the Church, rejected the authority of the pope, and believed they could govern themselves through their own parellel hierarchy. They are also trapped in time, believing only in the councils for the first thousand years, as though the second millenniam Councils of the Church didn't matter after that. Lastly, they, the orthodox, are not just schismatics, they have over time broken with the doctrine of the Church on many matters, including divorce and remarriage. They are heretics. Avoid the orthodox, they are not a solution, they will entrap you into their schismatic and heretical sect. Don't be deceived by their beautiful liturgies, everything that they have that is beautiful was stolen from the Church. They are like the art thief that shows off "his" masterpieces.
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Post by kim on Oct 16, 2017 15:20:49 GMT -5
Wow Pacelli--you should be a lawyer (maybe you are). You argue so eloquently for and against stuff. Thank you for your insights!
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