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Post by Marya Dabrowski on Aug 19, 2017 22:30:16 GMT -5
Is it lawful to donate your body to science?
Does this go against "burying the dead"? They can still be buried afterward, that is unless their parts are all dissected and flushed down a drain.
Not curious for myself, just curious in general.
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Post by Marya Dabrowski on Aug 21, 2017 23:05:47 GMT -5
Must have been a dumb question!
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Post by Voxxkowalski on Aug 22, 2017 7:13:00 GMT -5
I think its an abomination. But I dont know the law on the matter. But if you consider the things "science" does with the body...yeah Ill pass. When my brother was killed tragically in an accident my mother donated his corneas...but Im not sure if thats the same thing. According to our faith the human body has an intrinsic value that demands respect by us and others. The prohibition against cremation except in case of disease control is an indicator.
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Post by Pacelli on Aug 22, 2017 19:42:55 GMT -5
Must have been a dumb question! No, it's a great question. I remember when you first posted it, and I was going to start looking through the books for an answer, got distracted and forgot about it until now. Give me some time, and I will look into it. Some initial starting concerns however are: How is death known? This alone makes me wonder about the lawfulness of this act. There are many cases of apparent death, with people waking up after. This seems to rule out any immediate use of a body in most situations on this point alone. Also, are we ever permitted to give away essential organs, even if we are presumed dead? The problem in some of these medical-moral matters is that the facts have gotten ahead of the theology. We need our living Teacher in Rome to teach us on all of these matters. In the meantime, we should be very cautious on how we deal with or advise others in these situations.
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Post by Marya Dabrowski on Aug 22, 2017 21:00:24 GMT -5
I think its an abomination. But I dont know the law on the matter. But if you consider the things "science" does with the body...yeah Ill pass. When my brother was killed tragically in an accident my mother donated his corneas...but Im not sure if thats the same thing. According to our faith the human body has an intrinsic value that demands respect by us and others. The prohibition against cremation except in case of disease control is an indicator. I would think the same. We can not because of the treatment of the body and the command to "bury the dead." Then I asked myself how people would learn about ourselves, such as how women are born with all their eggs at birth. I thought of two things. Either 1) we would have to go by investigating other mammals, which in my opinion is sorely inadequate or 2) whenever doctors are trying to help an injured or diseased person he could discover more about the body in the process, without necessarily digging more than he should and in that way doctors would learn from each other, as long as they are all sharing their knowledge. This, too, is inadequate IMO and burdensome.
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Post by Marya Dabrowski on Aug 22, 2017 21:08:24 GMT -5
Must have been a dumb question! No, it's a great question. I remember when you first posted it, and I was going to start looking through the books for an answer, got distracted and forgot about it until now. Give me some time, and I will look into it. Some initial starting concerns however are: How is death known? This alone makes me wonder about the lawfulness of this act. There are many cases of apparent death, with people waking up after. This seems to rule out any immediate use of a body in most situations on this point alone. Also, are we ever permitted to give away essential organs, even if we are presumed dead? The problem in some of these medical-moral matters is that the facts have gotten ahead of the theology. We need our living Teacher in Rome to teach us on all of these matters. In the meantime, we should be very cautious on how we deal with or advise others in these situations. I agree. I think it is highly likely in this case the Church has already said something on the subject, simply because human anatomy and studying cadavers goes back thousands of years.
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Post by Voxxkowalski on Aug 22, 2017 23:00:03 GMT -5
Problem is the phrase "donate body to science" is an extreamly broad and imprecise phrase
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Post by Marya Dabrowski on Aug 22, 2017 23:18:58 GMT -5
Please forgive my earlier example if it seemed odd. I was just wondering how people came to find this out without having studied a female infant.
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Post by Voxxkowalski on Aug 23, 2017 0:12:13 GMT -5
I dont think its a matter of forensic anatomy...but what is the final resting place and is the body kept integrsl to its parts.
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Post by kim on Aug 23, 2017 5:14:40 GMT -5
As a nurse, I've always joked that I wanted some young cute medical interns using me for knowledge sake.. Surgeons learn surgery on donated cadavers. I remember an orthopedic intern being all excited over a shipment of cadavers that they were going to practice orthopedic surgeries on.
I and many members of my family have benefitted from the knowledge gained from the donation of cadavers to doctors in training so it's hard for me to condemn this.
Too bad there is no pope to make a ruling on this.
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Post by Voxxkowalski on Aug 23, 2017 7:35:53 GMT -5
As a nurse, I've always joked that I wanted some young cute medical interns using me for knowledge sake.. Surgeons learn surgery on donated cadavers. I remember an orthopedic intern being all excited over a shipment of cadavers that they were going to practice orthopedic surgeries on. I and many members of my family have benefitted from the knowledge gained from the donation of cadavers to doctors in training so it's hard for me to condemn this. Too bad there is no pope to make a ruling on this. I'm glad you chimed in on this I knew you would have direct medical experience. But still, think about it...the DR excited about a "shipment' of dead Human beings (cadavers) Its this negating of the humanity of the people into objects that offend the most. Now it is true God said "dust thou art and to dust thou shall return" but when Christ was incarnated into the Human Race we became so much more than meat with minds. What happens to the dead humans after the training is over? As far as the benefits...that is a results justify the means argument and I'm not convinced by it.
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Post by kim on Aug 23, 2017 10:07:09 GMT -5
I don't know what other medical schools do, but after the cadavers had run their course so to speak, the Medical College of Georgia offered cremation and a group funeral. I guess you could have requested your loved one's body back for a private burial if you wanted.
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Post by kim on Aug 23, 2017 10:13:48 GMT -5
As a nurse, I've always joked that I wanted some young cute medical interns using me for knowledge sake.. Surgeons learn surgery on donated cadavers. I remember an orthopedic intern being all excited over a shipment of cadavers that they were going to practice orthopedic surgeries on. I and many members of my family have benefitted from the knowledge gained from the donation of cadavers to doctors in training so it's hard for me to condemn this. Too bad there is no pope to make a ruling on this. I'm glad you chimed in on this I knew you would have direct medical experience. But still, think about it...the DR excited about a "shipment' of dead Human beings (cadavers) Its this negating of the humanity of the people into objects that offend the most. Now it is true God said "dust thou art and to dust thou shall return" but when Christ was incarnated into the Human Race we became so much more than meat with minds. What happens to the dead humans after the training is over? As far as the benefits...that is a results justify the means argument and I'm not convinced by it. He was excited about the prospect of honing his skill. As someone who has had hardware placed in my ankle, I'm appreciative of having had someone with expertise placing it.
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Post by Pacelli on Aug 23, 2017 10:23:32 GMT -5
No, it's a great question. I remember when you first posted it, and I was going to start looking through the books for an answer, got distracted and forgot about it until now. Give me some time, and I will look into it. Some initial starting concerns however are: How is death known? This alone makes me wonder about the lawfulness of this act. There are many cases of apparent death, with people waking up after. This seems to rule out any immediate use of a body in most situations on this point alone. Also, are we ever permitted to give away essential organs, even if we are presumed dead? The problem in some of these medical-moral matters is that the facts have gotten ahead of the theology. We need our living Teacher in Rome to teach us on all of these matters. In the meantime, we should be very cautious on how we deal with or advise others in these situations. I agree. I think it is highly likely in this case the Church has already said something on the subject, simply because human anatomy and studying cadavers goes back thousands of years. I do remember now reading about this years ago, Pius XII did teach on this, and he taught that it was permissible. Now just to find where I read it.
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Post by Pacelli on Aug 23, 2017 13:57:18 GMT -5
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