Butterfly3
Junior Member
I need to remember to log onto this site every once in awhile.
Posts: 74
|
Post by Butterfly3 on May 24, 2022 10:50:52 GMT -5
There was a question on Sedevacantist Society on a FB group that asked if stillborn can have a requiem Mass. There is a lot of either thoughts or opinions or maybe facts. I can't really tell. There is a ton of information on new advent about Limbo, unbaptized babies go here and feel and see this and some saints disagree with each other on this. Some are heresy and I'm just really lost on it all. I do get pretty sensitive about this. I think maybe because in Protestantism we are taught babies just don't go to hell, why would a loving God send them to hell. So maybe that's why I'm a bit sensitive on catholic church teaching. I've seen/heard from this thread, www.facebook.com/groups/659850404426435/posts/1357044784706990/?comment_id=1357057204705748&reply_comment_id=1357372148007587¬if_id=1653367193574820¬if_t=group_comment_mention that someone said that unbaptized babies go to Hell. yea, but not actual fire and brimstone hell, just limbo which is a happy place, but it is still a sad place (I put that in there) because anywhere but heaven is a place with sadness because they can't see the face of God. But limbo is I guess not a defined dogma, so you can believe in limbo or not. But in this book I have in the apostles creed it talks about Jesus went to Limbo, but I guess maybe the apostles creed has changed over time with the wording. Now it says hell, but in the past it said limbo and other areas have changed. So a little off topic, I don't know why we say things haven't changed when they have. So, when a NO person comes up to me (always online, nobody offline talks to me in that dept unless they're family, which they don't talk about Catholicism. I don't have any NO friends either, besides family again. Most of them have deleted and blocked me online because I believe this way now, sede). I'm sorry this is all choppy, but that's how it is in my head, not organized for sure, because I don't understand it. I don't want to just believe it and shrug my shoulders and say oh well I believe it because it's church teaching but I don't understand anything and I don't have to understand anything just believe. I think that's a lazy way, because if someone asks you a question or you ask yourself questions, you just think oh well I don't care, I believe in whatever the church says and that's that. that's just lazy to me. I don't even want to get into that. I'm a little bit upset about somethings so yea sorry about that too. Someone said that unborn babies we can't pray for, we can't pray for aborted babies (I've actually got into an argument with that one and he supposedly hates me and has blocked me on fb. plus now I won't go to his church, because I don't want to see him and I just figure some stuff and I'm not going to go to a church that is drama llama. I might come back to this and edit it. But I just need to walk away for a few.
|
|
|
Post by Voxxkowalski on May 26, 2022 17:01:51 GMT -5
Aborted children do not go to heaven but they also do not suffer the fires of h*** At least in the sense of Punishment for sins committed But to say aborted children go to heaven is to take the same side as Planned Parenthood And what Parent wouldn't want to send their child directly to heaven.... If aborted children went to heaven it would be your duty to abort them That's the way I see it
|
|
|
Post by Clotilde on May 27, 2022 23:00:50 GMT -5
Limbo is a place of natural happiness.
|
|
|
Post by samuelsede on May 28, 2022 19:02:48 GMT -5
There was a question on Sedevacantist Society on a FB group that asked if stillborn can have a requiem Mass. There is a lot of either thoughts or opinions or maybe facts. I can't really tell. There is a ton of information on new advent about Limbo, unbaptized babies go here and feel and see this and some saints disagree with each other on this. Some are heresy and I'm just really lost on it all. I do get pretty sensitive about this. I think maybe because in Protestantism we are taught babies just don't go to hell, why would a loving God send them to hell. So maybe that's why I'm a bit sensitive on catholic church teaching. I've seen/heard from this thread, www.facebook.com/groups/659850404426435/posts/1357044784706990/?comment_id=1357057204705748&reply_comment_id=1357372148007587¬if_id=1653367193574820¬if_t=group_comment_mention that someone said that unbaptized babies go to Hell. yea, but not actual fire and brimstone hell, just limbo which is a happy place, but it is still a sad place (I put that in there) because anywhere but heaven is a place with sadness because they can't see the face of God. But limbo is I guess not a defined dogma, so you can believe in limbo or not. But in this book I have in the apostles creed it talks about Jesus went to Limbo, but I guess maybe the apostles creed has changed over time with the wording. Now it says hell, but in the past it said limbo and other areas have changed. So a little off topic, I don't know why we say things haven't changed when they have. So, when a NO person comes up to me (always online, nobody offline talks to me in that dept unless they're family, which they don't talk about Catholicism. I don't have any NO friends either, besides family again. Most of them have deleted and blocked me online because I believe this way now, sede). I'm sorry this is all choppy, but that's how it is in my head, not organized for sure, because I don't understand it. I don't want to just believe it and shrug my shoulders and say oh well I believe it because it's church teaching but I don't understand anything and I don't have to understand anything just believe. I think that's a lazy way, because if someone asks you a question or you ask yourself questions, you just think oh well I don't care, I believe in whatever the church says and that's that. that's just lazy to me. I don't even want to get into that. I'm a little bit upset about somethings so yea sorry about that too. Someone said that unborn babies we can't pray for, we can't pray for aborted babies (I've actually got into an argument with that one and he supposedly hates me and has blocked me on fb. plus now I won't go to his church, because I don't want to see him and I just figure some stuff and I'm not going to go to a church that is drama llama. I might come back to this and edit it. But I just need to walk away for a few. There is a good discussion of this question here: archive.org/details/GraceActualAndHabitual/page/n173/mode/2up?view=theater (Pohle, Joseph, 1852-1922; Preuss, Arthur, 1871-1934) "A way out of the difficulty is suggested by Gutberlet and others, who, holding with St. Thomas that infants that die without Baptism will enjoy a kind of natural beati- tude, think it possible that God, in view of their suffer- ings, may mercifully cleanse them from original sin and thereby place them in a state of innocence. 84 This the- ory is based on the assumption that the ultimate fate of unbaptized children is deprivation of the beatific vision of God and therefore a state of real damnation (poena damm, infernum), and that the remission of orig- inal sin has for its object merely to enable these un- fortunate infants to enjoy a perfect natural beatitude, which they could not otherwise attain. It is reasonable to argue that, as these infants are deprived of celestial happiness through no guilt of their own, the Creator can hardly deny them some sort of natural beatitude, to which their very nature seems to entitle them. " Hell " for them probably consists in being deprived of the beatific vision of God, which is a supernatural grace and as such lies outside the sphere of those prerogatives to which hu- man nature has a claim by the fact of creation. This theory would seem to establish at least some manner of salvation for the infants in question, and consequently, to vindicate the divine voluntas salvifica in the same measure." (pg 165)
|
|
|
Post by RitaMarita on May 30, 2022 6:00:22 GMT -5
There was a question on Sedevacantist Society on a FB group that asked if stillborn can have a requiem Mass. There is a lot of either thoughts or opinions or maybe facts. I can't really tell. There is a ton of information on new advent about Limbo, unbaptized babies go here and feel and see this and some saints disagree with each other on this. Some are heresy and I'm just really lost on it all. I do get pretty sensitive about this. I think maybe because in Protestantism we are taught babies just don't go to hell, why would a loving God send them to hell. So maybe that's why I'm a bit sensitive on catholic church teaching. I've seen/heard from this thread, www.facebook.com/groups/659850404426435/posts/1357044784706990/?comment_id=1357057204705748&reply_comment_id=1357372148007587¬if_id=1653367193574820¬if_t=group_comment_mention that someone said that unbaptized babies go to Hell. yea, but not actual fire and brimstone hell, just limbo which is a happy place, but it is still a sad place (I put that in there) because anywhere but heaven is a place with sadness because they can't see the face of God. But limbo is I guess not a defined dogma, so you can believe in limbo or not. But in this book I have in the apostles creed it talks about Jesus went to Limbo, but I guess maybe the apostles creed has changed over time with the wording. Now it says hell, but in the past it said limbo and other areas have changed. So a little off topic, I don't know why we say things haven't changed when they have. So, when a NO person comes up to me (always online, nobody offline talks to me in that dept unless they're family, which they don't talk about Catholicism. I don't have any NO friends either, besides family again. Most of them have deleted and blocked me online because I believe this way now, sede). I'm sorry this is all choppy, but that's how it is in my head, not organized for sure, because I don't understand it. I don't want to just believe it and shrug my shoulders and say oh well I believe it because it's church teaching but I don't understand anything and I don't have to understand anything just believe. I think that's a lazy way, because if someone asks you a question or you ask yourself questions, you just think oh well I don't care, I believe in whatever the church says and that's that. that's just lazy to me. I don't even want to get into that. I'm a little bit upset about somethings so yea sorry about that too. Someone said that unborn babies we can't pray for, we can't pray for aborted babies (I've actually got into an argument with that one and he supposedly hates me and has blocked me on fb. plus now I won't go to his church, because I don't want to see him and I just figure some stuff and I'm not going to go to a church that is drama llama. I might come back to this and edit it. But I just need to walk away for a few. Hell has many varying layers the worst part for traitorous Catholic and this is why we don't baptize people unless we know that they truly wish to hold the Faith. From what I understand Limbo is a part of hell where there is no pain or suffering except the absence of God. Also known as the "Bossom of Abraham" it is where those who have original sin but have no actual sin on their soul reside. Thus when Our Lord "descended into hell" it was into this layer of hell where the just awaited Him since the doors of Heaven had not been opened. The term Limbo in the past was used more before it was abused by the novus ordo. We know as Catholics that the four last things are: Death, Judgement, Heaven and Hell. Now, many people in the Novus ordo believe that Limbo is a separate place from heaven or hell. But this can not be since at the end of time there is no purgatory or middle place. So, if in Limbo people are deprived of the presence of God it must be a part of hell. As the others have said though... There is a strong tradition that those who reside there are given natural blessings and happiness even though deprived of the happiness of Heaven and the presence of God. In my mind the worst evil of abortion is the fact that those have killed these children have prevented them from entering into heaven. Yet, perhaps God in His wisdom seeing that the parents are so twisted and have problems allow these children to die before birth before they become tainted by their parents and inherit a worse torment in hell?
|
|