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CIX!
Feb 4, 2019 17:22:18 GMT -5
Post by Pacelli on Feb 4, 2019 17:22:18 GMT -5
I agree...the fact that the Byzantines and Ukrainian Churches are now ecumenical maniacs for all things orthoduck is a great scandal to me. In our regular bulletins we get frothy stories of how wonderful it is since the Ukranian crisis that antirussian orthoducks are on the ascendency in Ukraine...for no other reason then they are against Russia. The Ukrainians suffer from Putin derangement syndrome....so much so that they chuck out the Dogma...EENS. Do they forget it was the orthoducks that betrayed the uniates and Roman Catholics to the Jewish Bolshevics under stalin and were in bed with all the Iron Curtain dictators right up to the fall of the USSR...There can be no reproachmon with the ducks until they recognise the Papacy as the Head of the Universal Christian Church Actually, I prefer the upstate PA terminology of "Orthodog" instead of "Orthoduck." In all seriousness though, I will lay down something heretical that will cause many to shout "Crucify him! Crucify him!" . . . One part of my family is Ukrainian Greek Catholic, another part of my family is of the American Carpatho-Russian Orthodox Church. (Insert Indiana Jones gif of Belloq's head exploding after opening the Ark of the Covenant here . . .) I agree that it is not good for us to be in a state of severe Schadenfreude regarding the Russians, although the Russians are not without blame either. They are just as bad as us when it comes to politicizing the Church as a weapon to use against each other, and are just as corrupt as other Church hierarchs. I have a doctored icon of Jesus Cleansing the Temple that a friend gave to me with pics of the Moscow patriarchs superimposed on the money changers - it is quite funny actually, and ironic, since I can see Jesus doing that to all of our hierarchs, Russian, Ukrainian, Greek, Roman, etc., for all the tomfoolery they have engaged in over the years (if you want a copy, send me a private message . . .) Ultimately, mistakes were made on both sides of the fence; now is not the time to nitpick each other's pimples, but to move on and seek repentance and healing.Dear Father, I have started a new thread to further discuss the boldfaced statement. It would be discourteous of me to discuss it here on the introduction forum, as this forum is for lighthearted discussion to get to know people. My post is HERE
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CIX!
Feb 5, 2019 13:40:39 GMT -5
Post by Clotilde on Feb 5, 2019 13:40:39 GMT -5
our lady predicted that Russia will convert to her Immaculate Heart IE they would become a Catholic Nation therefore I refuse to just blatantly hate on Putin who I see as simply being a modern czar. Since I'm a monarchist I don't have a problem with this Yes and an instrument of chastisement. I don't want to be chastised but the world severely needs it so I pray we all persevere to the end.
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CIX!
Feb 5, 2019 13:46:21 GMT -5
Post by Clotilde on Feb 5, 2019 13:46:21 GMT -5
Hello and welcome, MGC! I feel like I'm half Ukrainian sometimes but I'll never get my card fully stamped, I cannot stomach sauerkraut or borscht!
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CIX!
Feb 5, 2019 21:56:23 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by jen51 on Feb 5, 2019 21:56:23 GMT -5
Hi! Pleased to have you here.
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CIX!
Feb 5, 2019 21:57:10 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by jen51 on Feb 5, 2019 21:57:10 GMT -5
Hello and welcome, MGC! I feel like I'm half Ukrainian sometimes but I'll never get my card fully stamped, I cannot stomach sauerkraut or borscht! I figured you would inquire about his favorite sandwich!
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CIX!
Feb 5, 2019 23:48:22 GMT -5
Post by Clotilde on Feb 5, 2019 23:48:22 GMT -5
Hello and welcome, MGC! I feel like I'm half Ukrainian sometimes but I'll never get my card fully stamped, I cannot stomach sauerkraut or borscht! I figured you would inquire about his favorite sandwich! Ha! Maybe I should have asked about pierogi?
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CIX!
Feb 6, 2019 4:41:10 GMT -5
Post by Guest on Feb 6, 2019 4:41:10 GMT -5
Dear Father X, Slava Isusu Khrystu! The [true] Catholic Church - that in communion with the See of Rome - does not look on the so-called "Eastern Orthodox" as sister Churches. That is ecumenical V-2 bunkum; alas, those bodies are vehicles of schism and heresy. Rome had the primacy from the earliest times. Saint Ignatius of Antioch, in his letter to the Roman Church, refers to its pre-eminence (Constantinople, Antioch, Alexandria and Jerusalem don't, and didn't, even have a look-in). I don't mean to defame poor Fr. Taft, but he was "infamous" - he was well imbued with V-2's heretical ecclesiology and had no qualms about accepting the Bogus Ordo Missae. Slava Na Viki! Dear Guest, CIX! Glad to see your comments. Please know that you are in my prayers and I trust that all is going well with you. Everyone has their faults and no theologian possesses 100% certitude or infallibility. Even though said infallibility with regards to the Papacy was proclaimed as dogma at Vatican I - I accept, but I also question the doctrine of papal infallibility on both philosophical and theological grounds. St. Robert Bellarmine's iconic statement: PAPA HERETICUS IPSO FACTO DEPOSITUS EST is one to remember when examining papal infallibility. Hence, I don't find that your statement about +Taft is insulting, but I perceive that you are merely stating a fact. +Taft did embrace the Novus Ordo, which I do believe to be a mistake on his part. He had his faults, just as we have ours (I happened to get to know him somewhat on a personal level, and boy howdy he was really funny, even though he swore and cussed even worse than a Camden, NJ, longshoreman). However, he tenaciously fought to protect the oft trampled on rights of the Eastern Churches. I am not questioning Rome's primacy, and if I came across as directly doing so, I apologize on one level since there are MANY sources going back to the ancient Christian era that point to Rome's primacy. On the other hand, what "kind" of primacy this entails can be questioned. I assert Rome has abused this primacy many times over history just like her counterparts in Constantinople and Moscow. In particular, I question Rome's motives (as I do Constantinople, Moscow, etc.) with regard to the Eastern Catholic Churches. Rome NEVER was 100 percent infallible during its entire 2019 years of existence; I say this not to insult but to simply state a fact. When people belly ache about all the scandals going on today, most almost never look into the seedier aspects of Rome from centuries before (i.e., the Theophylact and Borgia papacies are excellent examples if you have the stomach to look at these tidbits of history). Yes, V-2 is, in my estimation, one of the greatest tools of the devil in wreaking destruction upon the Roman Catholic Church (getting everyone to embrace the heresy of modernism is one of satan's greatest victories). Rome REALLY went off the rails there. But, with regard to ecclesiology, primacy does not imply that one man lords over all with an iron fist in a strict pyramidal form of hierarchy, nor does it imply a loose confederation of bishoprics that will secede if they decide to do so. Again, one needs to be careful with terminology here - I am not perfect in this aspect, as I have my own biases that I have to fight. With that said, I am convinced that both sides, East and West really porked things up before, during, and after, 1054. Regarding the terminology of sister churches with respect to the Orthodox, one can have siblings or parents, and yet be estranged, sometimes totally and permanently, from them. I am sure all of us here can relate to having a brother, sister, aunt, uncle, etc., that has totally disowned their family and will refuse any contact with them. Or perhaps a more sinister example, some can relate by growing up with a divorced mother and father who have irreconcilable enmity between them, and from that enmity, consistently try to use their children as weapons against each other. This is the situation that some of us (including yours truly) in the Eastern Catholic Churches see when we look at Rome, Constantinople, Alexandria, Antioch, and Jerusalem (one might as well add Moscow to the mix but I am hesitant since it is my view that Moscow decided to do to Constantinople what both Constantinople and Rome did to each other). Hence, I will categorically state that it is not "ecumenical V-2 bunkum" regarding my use of the terminology "sister churches" with respect to the Orthodox, but rather a statement of fact, especially since prior to 1054, and 200 years earlier with the Photian schism, all five major sees of Christianity shared communion with each other before becoming estranged. Again, I hope all is well with you and if you ever wish to discuss these issues over a scotch or coffee, my doors are always open. God bless! CHB! Dear Father X, Slava Isusu Khrystu! Thank you for your prayers - much appreciated. I could say quite a lot in response, because you have raised quite a few issues, but I will keep this as brief as I can. I don't know how one can accept the dogma (because that is what it is) of Papal Infallibility (correctly understood), and yet question it at the same time. That seems a contradiction to this simple mind. Saint Robert Bellarmine's position was that a Pope could not fall into heresy, that God would not allow it. However, to cover all his bases, and speaking hypothetically if such a situation were to occur, he made that famous statement that you quoted. Prior to the definition of Papal Infallibility being made at the Vatican Council of 1870, the Council Fathers agreed with St. Robert that no Pope had ever lapsed into heresy - and they were well acquainted with the case of Pope Honorius I, for instance. I am well aware of the morally rotten and scandalous Popes of the Dark Ages and later, but none ever tried to bind the Church to heresy. By contrast, look at the number of Patriarchs of Constantinople who became heretics prior to 1054. Whenever anti-Catholics, especially the "Eastern Orthodox", point to the aforementioned horrible Popes, I tell them I can give them even more examples! As the See of Rome is indefectible, it did not go off the rails at V-2. "An enemy hath done this." Montini (Paul 6) and successors therefore could not have been, and be, Popes. By the way, in Pope Pius IX's Syllabus of Errors, the Holy Father condemned as an error the idea that Rome's conduct led to the tragedy of 1054. A Catholic, of whatever Rite, must accept this. The infamous Balamand Declaration stated that the Catholic and "Eastern Orthodox" Churches are sister Churches. The correct understanding of sibling relationships within the one family, the one Church of Christ, is that only the various Churches of East and West, in communion with each other through the centre of Catholic unity - Rome - are sister Churches. We must remember that in 1054 the Patriarch of Constantinople was excommunicated, not an entire Church. Incidentally, did you know that in July 1972, Montini said that the newly-elected Patriarch of Constantinople had assumed "a heavy charge in the service of the Church of Christ"? I wonder what the great Ruthenian martyr, Saint Josaphat, would have made of that!? I would love to meet you over a scotch or coffee (and cigar!), Father, but because we probably live many miles apart, I can't see it happening. This unlearned layman, and no theologian, sends his very best wishes. Slava na viki!
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CIX!
Feb 6, 2019 4:56:58 GMT -5
Post by Guest on Feb 6, 2019 4:56:58 GMT -5
I figured you would inquire about his favorite sandwich! Ha! Maybe I should have asked about pierogi? Ah, pierogi - a great Polish dish. Barszcz is yummy too!
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CIX!
Feb 6, 2019 5:09:09 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by Voxxkowalski on Feb 6, 2019 5:09:09 GMT -5
guest your comments are very interesting and well stated...why not join the forum officially?
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CIX!
Feb 6, 2019 6:01:05 GMT -5
Post by Guest on Feb 6, 2019 6:01:05 GMT -5
guest your comments are very interesting and well stated...why not join the forum officially? I would like to, but I had a very nasty experience on another forum quite a while ago; the moderator/administrator took strong exception to my disagreeing with him on a particular issue, so I don't want to risk a repeat performance.
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Post by Voxxkowalski on Feb 6, 2019 13:18:47 GMT -5
guest your comments are very interesting and well stated...why not join the forum officially? I would like to, but I had a very nasty experience on another forum quite a while ago; the moderator/administrator took strong exception to my disagreeing with him on a particular issue, so I don't want to risk a repeat performance. Then you know nothing about this forum...we are singular
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CIX!
Feb 6, 2019 17:57:10 GMT -5
Post by Clotilde on Feb 6, 2019 17:57:10 GMT -5
Ha! Maybe I should have asked about pierogi? Ah, pierogi - a great Polish dish. Barszcz is yummy too! Also popular in the Ukraine. I've developed my own recipe and I like bacon, potato, and cheddar the best, but it's not very traditional.
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Post by Marya Dabrowski on Feb 7, 2019 8:33:02 GMT -5
guest your comments are very interesting and well stated...why not join the forum officially? I would like to, but I had a very nasty experience on another forum quite a while ago; the moderator/administrator took strong exception to my disagreeing with him on a particular issue, so I don't want to risk a repeat performance. Thank you for posting as a guest then.
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Post by Voxxkowalski on Feb 7, 2019 8:59:49 GMT -5
Problem is is guest access is only a temporary situation.
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Post by Marya Dabrowski on Feb 7, 2019 23:08:55 GMT -5
Problem is is guest access is only a temporary situation. That's too bad.
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