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Post by quoprimum18 on Jan 3, 2019 12:19:23 GMT -5
Hello all! And a blessed New Year to you & yours. I'm back on board after some considerable time away and I thought I'd start up a new thread concerning how my Parish's choirs, of which I am a member, fight back against insipid modernist "Church" music. Attached you will find a Word doc outlining this coming Epiphany Sunday's planning for the 10:30 Choir Mass. I'll grant you that it's not Tridentine, but at the very least, you won't be served the "four-hymn sandwich" we all so despise on Sundays at my Parish:-) Epiphany.docx (19.68 KB)
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Post by Voxxkowalski on Jan 3, 2019 17:31:57 GMT -5
If only the rest of the Service was Catholic
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Post by carloscamejo on Jan 4, 2019 23:50:51 GMT -5
Yep. Maybe the Latins can get to a point where a vernacular Mass is reverent and holy, like the Byzantines... Maybe someday.
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Post by Guest on Jan 6, 2019 1:18:05 GMT -5
Yep. Maybe the Latins can get to a point where a vernacular Mass is reverent and holy, like the Byzantines... Maybe someday. The "Latins" don't have a vernacular Mass, as the Bogus Ordo ( Novus Ordo Missae) isn't a Mass. Some of the vernacular "Byzantine Masses" nowadays, especially in North America, aren't particularly reverent or holy. My late father was a member of the Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church, and he preferred the Divine Liturgy to be in Old Slavonic, not the vernacular. He also preferred celibate clergy to married ones. In these respects, he would have agreed more with the views and practices of Bishop Chomyszyn than with those of Metropolitan Szeptycki. As for me, I love the "traditional" Roman Rite most of all.
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Post by Voxxkowalski on Jan 6, 2019 14:53:34 GMT -5
Yep. Maybe the Latins can get to a point where a vernacular Mass is reverent and holy, like the Byzantines... Maybe someday. The "Latins" don't have a vernacular Mass, as the Bogus Ordo ( Novus Ordo Missae) isn't a Mass. Some of the vernacular "Byzantine Masses" nowadays, especially in North America, aren't particularly reverent or holy. My late father was a member of the Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church, and he preferred the Divine Liturgy to be in Old Slavonic, not the vernacular. He also preferred celibate clergy to married ones. In these respects, he would have agreed more with the views and practices of Bishop Chomyszyn than with those of Metropolitan Szeptycki. As for me, I love the "traditional" Roman Rite most of all. You're right SOME aren't "reverent or holy"...but MANY ARE...in my estimation in many ways even more so then the basement Latin masses and Chapel Masses...but Im biased.
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Post by Voxxkowalski on Jan 6, 2019 14:54:22 GMT -5
Further if your Father was Ukrainian Catholic why arent you still?
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Post by Guest on Jan 6, 2019 22:30:25 GMT -5
Further if your Father was Ukrainian Catholic why arent you still? Where I was born, grew up and now live, there are no Ukrainian Catholic churches (or any Eastern Catholic ones, for that matter) for miles around, so I was brought up as a "Latin" (but I prefer to call myself simply a Catholic). I have travelled and been to various Divine Liturgies, but, aesthetically, I still prefer the Roman Rite to them. The DLs are too florid for me. Yet there are "Latins" who like the Eastern ceremonies better. I see nothing wrong with that - but that's not me. I have met Byzantine clergy who have horrified me with their modernism, indifferentism, eekumaniacism, etc. Furthermore, I have found a lot of the adherents of various Eastern Rites to be too ultra-nationalistic for my liking; I aim to be more universal ("catholic") in my outlook.
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Post by Pacelli on Jan 7, 2019 13:17:35 GMT -5
Further if your Father was Ukrainian Catholic why arent you still? Where I was born, grew up and now live, there are no Ukrainian Catholic churches (or any Eastern Catholic ones, for that matter) for miles around, so I was brought up as a "Latin" (but I prefer to call myself simply a Catholic). I have travelled and been to various Divine Liturgies, but, aesthetically, I still prefer the Roman Rite to them. The DLs are too florid for me. Yet there are "Latins" who like the Eastern ceremonies better. I see nothing wrong with that - but that's not me. I have met Byzantine clergy who have horrified me with their modernism, indifferentism, eekumaniacism, etc. Furthermore, I have found a lot of the adherents of various Eastern Rites to be too ultra-nationalistic for my liking; I aim to be more universal ("catholic") in my outlook. It’s interesting that you perceive the DL as more florid than the Roman mass. I find the DL and other eastern rites much more simple. Ask an altar boy who has served at both which he thinks is more florid. I would be surprised if he said the DL. A member of this forum agrees with your assessment on the modernism and false ecumenism at some eastern churches, which is rampant among the Ukrainians, at least, where he lives, My opinion on the matter is this: there really is no way to find out how broad this all is in the eastern rite eparchies and parishes so we must rely on what we see or learn from others for the most part. I have been going to eastern rite churches off and on for decades, and my experience has been that I have yet to see anything beyond liberalism and weak Catholicism at some, while others were to the best of my knowledge run by good priests and with many good laity. Its a complicated situation in the eastern churches. A while back I was traveling and learned there was an eastern Catholic Church near where I was visiting. I went there and was surprised to meet a priest with a very strong Catholic Faith and laity who were all very zealous and devout at the liturgy and afterwards this was also apparent when I chatted with them. So, probably there are many other parishes in other areas where there is laxity or even worse, but it is not a universal. The eastern Catholics are not immune to the crisis, they are also living it, the only difference is that they retain their ancient liturgies, canonical parishes, lawfullly commissioned hierarchies, and certainly valid orders (with some exceptions). My view on the eastern Catholic Churches is that they are very akin to Roman rite Catholics living in pre-June 1968 right before the Novus Ordo and the new holy order rites came along. Their status has essentially been trapped in time with heretics who support the new sect worshipping alongside with Catholics, and priests on both sides, but many also just being weak men who haven’t yet lost the Faith, but practically speaking (other than the acts inherent in the priesthood,the mass, the sacraments, etc.) are doing nothing for the Faith and sit idly by and oblivious to the fact that their flock is falling apart and away from the Catholic Faith.
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