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Post by Pacelli on Dec 2, 2016 11:21:28 GMT -5
Eric, I am now ready to finish my response to your post to me. I apologize for the piecemeal approach to answering, but I just do not have time to thoughtfully respond in one sitting to your points. I am trying very hard to give you the best answers I can, as I know that if I am unable to convince you on this matter, that you will be left in a very spiritually disadvantaged position during this crisis. Thank you very much for your replies. The delay is no problem at all, as I need time to think about things anyway. Are you planning to reply also to my last several paragraphs, including the quotations from Fr. Cekada and from James Larrabee? The question about the Mass obligation is a good one, I think. I will keep thinking about your replies, but so far I think we are talking past each other. From the fact that the Vatican II religion and its adherents have not been formally condemned, you draw conclusions which, as I see it, are unreasonable in practice, present a danger to souls, and imply that the Church has defected. Many traditionalists say this very thing about my own conclusions, and I don't have a convincing reply. I think the root of these disagreements is in the approach to the crisis -- what questions to ask first, what presumptions to make. Frankly I think it is absurd that people decided in the 1970s that the legitimate Catholic pastors weren't providing acceptable churches, priests, sacraments, etc. so whoever can should just do so himself. Yet it is considered crazy to even call this into question. To help me understand your view, could you say if you agree with this: "There is no such thing as a group of people, a society of men, a local church, or a congregation that belongs to the Vatican II sect. There are only individuals." Yes, I am writing a reply to every point, my time has been getting sidetracked with some other important matters on this forum, going through my notes, which usually means reading at length, and all sorts of things IRL. You are seeing what I have been seeing for years, that the root of the "traditionalist" response in the early period of this crisis was haphazard, leading to incorrect repsonses, and causing chaos among Catholics. To make matters worse, the initital response got "institutionlaized," over time, leading to more incorrect responses based on the faulty premises of the original ideas. With that said, I am not throwing stones at these Catholics of the 1970's, they were taken off guard, and responsed with a good motive, to keep and preserve their faith, but lacked a well thought out reaction according to Catholic principles. Fr. Barbara captures a lot of this, at least in regards to SSPX in his excellent tract, Écône Full Stop. The Conciliar church, can easily collapse at any time, it won't take much, it just hasn't happened yet. The power to end it has resided in certain men since the start, and if they eventually use the power of their offices, it ends, right then and there. More later.
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Post by Pacelli on Dec 2, 2016 13:05:54 GMT -5
Eric wrote:
Fr. Cekada, quoted by Eric wrote:
In my opinion, I think it best for parents to be up front and honest with their children, about the crisis in the Church, especially as they get older into their teen years. Children are much smarter than modern parents give them credit for, and they can grasp the complexity of the state of the Church if it is taught carefully to them.
Regarding masses said by validly ordained priests in churches affiliated with the Conciliar sect, they are few and far between anyway. So, for practical purposes this portion of the discussion is for the most part academic. Until Veronica brought this up recently, of an old diocesan priest saying the mass, I had even wondered if these situations still exist. In almost every case, in our current time, the priests saying these masses have received orders from a Paul VI rite bishop, and often receiving ordination in the Paul VI rite.
Just to be clear, not just for you, but for the readers, as this is a public discussion, we are not discussing the countless situations of priests with orders through the Paul VI rites who say the mass according to the Catholic rite, whether it be the Fraternity of St. Peter, the Institute of Christ the King, some other smaller groups or diocesan priests. The only situation we are discussing is the right to go to a validly ordained Catholic priest using the Catholic rite. In every one of these other cases, without exception, I strongly urge Catholics to avoid such sacraments.
Regarding the SSPX, yes there is a risk of scandal. Their position on the papacy and so many other matters poses grave risks to Catholics. I urge caution when going to them, and if one thinks they are too weak (or those under their charge)to not be influenced by them, then yes, one may have to consider avoiding them.
In my opinion, however, safeguards can be made to avoid the errors of such priests. One consideration that Catholics can ponder is keep in mind that the sermons of such priests are not approved sermons, and one is not bound to hear them. Another is that there is no obligation to stay after mass and engage in discussions. One can simply go to mass, and leave right away. It is very rare for a priest to give a weekday sermon, so if one chooses to go to a daily mass, they can simply assist at the Catholic rite, receive communion and leave right after Mass. I do not see much risk in that, even for children.
Fr. Cekada may know some whose faith has been corrupted, but I am not aware of many such cases. From my experience, I am aware of other factors which scandalize people, that are much more frequent, such as the behavior of the priests, sectarian behavior, etc.
The biggest danger that I see for those who go to certainly valid masses that also happen to be affiliated with the Conciliar sect is invalid sacraments, thereby leading to such Catholics not being sacramentally nourished making them weak. In every case, and I have known and do know many people in this situation, I am not aware of any of them that have lost their Faith by embracing heresy or error. What I have seen are people that are spiritually weak, and in most cases fall away from the practice of the Faith, but not the belief, leaving them as dead branches on the Catholic tree, in the Church, but spiritually dead.
Regarding the people who go to SSPX, yes, many do get infected with their ideas on the papacy, but I would argue that safeguards should prevent that, among those who are aware of such errors. As for children, safeguards should be imposed by their parents, if they choose to assist at mass with SSPX, to make sure that the children are kept safe.
I may also add that "sedevacantist" chapels are not immune from these problems, especially in regards to losing the youth, or in many cases of infecting people with errors. I would urge caution and safeguards no matter where one goes during this crisis, for oneself and one's children. There are dangers everywhere, and it will be like this until we have a Pope again to govern the Church.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 2, 2016 13:16:37 GMT -5
I am having great difficulty with a family member who doesn't understand why I won't go to the "Indult" Mass any longer. They just don't understand and I don't know if it is the way I am trying to explain it to them. Any suggestions on how to explain it? (The family member is Novus Ordo but would attend the "Indult" with me). Just remember that you don't have to explain it. People are way too nosy and demand to know things that are none of their business, and the flip side is that many people mistakenly think they need to explain their actions to others. But if you need an explanation, tell them that you are unsure whether the hosts in the tabernacle, which are consecrated at the NO, are actually truly consecrated. You are uncertain about the words on the consecration in the NO, the holy orders of any NO priest, and the episcopal consecration of any bishop under the revisions of Paul VI, aka Montini, because you have serious suspicions that he was not pope. That is the most concise way to put it. Clotilde and Voxxkowalski- I'm sorry, I should have clarified my post better instead of being vague. The person I am referring to is my husband. That is the reason for such concern. My husband grew up in Ireland in the 1950's and has a very good Catholic education, unlike me. He attended a Catholic University in Ireland. His parents, of course, were very Irish Catholic, unlike mine. He is a teacher at a Novus Ordo school. When I started attending the "Indult" Latin Mass he would go with me (although he would never go to receive Communion). He knows how much I love the Latin Mass. When I told him that I was no longer going to go there because of the issue with the Hosts, but was going to be attending the Ukranian Eastern Rite of the Roman Catholic Church, he stated that "there is only ONE ROMAN Catholic Church". (He says that the Priest knows what he is doing regarding the Hosts). He thinks I am leaving the Church by going to the Ukranians and insists I go back to the "Indult" Latin Mass. However, a short while ago he did admit about Francis "that man can't be a Pope". Any suggestions are very much appreciated. Again, sorry I wasn't clearer on my original post.
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Post by Pacelli on Dec 2, 2016 13:29:08 GMT -5
Just remember that you don't have to explain it. People are way too nosy and demand to know things that are none of their business, and the flip side is that many people mistakenly think they need to explain their actions to others. But if you need an explanation, tell them that you are unsure whether the hosts in the tabernacle, which are consecrated at the NO, are actually truly consecrated. You are uncertain about the words on the consecration in the NO, the holy orders of any NO priest, and the episcopal consecration of any bishop under the revisions of Paul VI, aka Montini, because you have serious suspicions that he was not pope. That is the most concise way to put it. Clotilde and Voxxkowalski- I'm sorry, I should have clarified my post better instead of being vague. The person I am referring to is my husband. That is the reason for such concern. My husband grew up in Ireland in the 1950's and has a very good Catholic education, unlike me. He attended a Catholic University in Ireland. His parents, of course, were very Irish Catholic, unlike mine. He is a Novus Ordo High School Teacher. When I started attending the "Indult" Latin Mass he would go with me (although he would never go to receive Communion). He knows how much I love the Latin Mass. When I told him that I was no longer going to go there because of the issue with the Hosts, but was going to be attending the Ukranian Eastern Rite of the Roman Catholic Church, he stated that "there is only ONE ROMAN Catholic Church". He thinks I am leaving the Church by going to the Ukranians and insists I go back to the "Indult" Latin Mass. However, a short while ago he did admit "that man can't be a Pope". Any suggestions are very much appreciated. Again, sorry I wasn't clearer on my original post. First and foremost pray for him. Next, try to find a simple Q and A tract on eastern Catholicism and print it for him, there are many online. Also, see if he would be willing to meet and talk with the priest with you to have his questions answered. I would urge you to speak with the priest in advance, and let him know the difficulties your husband has in not understanding the Ukrainian rite. The one thing not to do is argue with him about it, that will just make him retreat on the subject and end all chances of helping him. Also, be careful about how much information you give him at once, you may overwhelm him, the only focus should be for now that the Ukrainian rite is Catholic, the complexity of the state of the Church and the issues of the Novus Ordo, etc. may overwhelm him. If he goes wth you to the Ukrainian rite, all of those issues will be, practically speaking, non-issues for him anyway. If you need some help finding an easy Q and A online, pm me, I have some ideas.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 2, 2016 13:48:07 GMT -5
Clotilde and Voxxkowalski- I'm sorry, I should have clarified my post better instead of being vague. The person I am referring to is my husband. That is the reason for such concern. My husband grew up in Ireland in the 1950's and has a very good Catholic education, unlike me. He attended a Catholic University in Ireland. His parents, of course, were very Irish Catholic, unlike mine. He is a Novus Ordo High School Teacher. When I started attending the "Indult" Latin Mass he would go with me (although he would never go to receive Communion). He knows how much I love the Latin Mass. When I told him that I was no longer going to go there because of the issue with the Hosts, but was going to be attending the Ukranian Eastern Rite of the Roman Catholic Church, he stated that "there is only ONE ROMAN Catholic Church". He thinks I am leaving the Church by going to the Ukranians and insists I go back to the "Indult" Latin Mass. However, a short while ago he did admit "that man can't be a Pope". Any suggestions are very much appreciated. Again, sorry I wasn't clearer on my original post. First and foremost pray for him. Next, try to find a simple Q and A tract on eastern Catholicism and print it for him, there are many online. Also, see if he would be willing to meet and talk with the priest with you to have his questions answered. I would urge you to speak with the priest in advance, and let him know the difficulties your husband has in not understanding the Ukrainian rite. The one thing not to do is argue with him about it, that will just make him retreat on the subject and end all chances of helping him. Also, be careful about how much information you give him at once, you may overwhelm him, the only focus should be for now that the Ukrainian rite is Catholic, the complexity of the state of the Church and the issues of the Novus Ordo, etc. may overwhelm him. If he goes wth you to the Ukrainian rite, all of those issues will be, practically speaking, non-issues for him anyway. If you need some help finding an easy Q and A online, pm me, I have some ideas. For the last 2 yrs I have shared with him about the crisis in the church and the Novus Ordo and my reasons for only attending a Latin Mass. When I told him I could no longer attend the Latin Mass due to the Priest including the Novus Ordo Hosts in with the Latin Mass, he insists that the Priest "knows what he is doing" and insists that I still attend the "Indult". I guess by my saying the Priest is doing something wrong he thinks I think I "know better" than the Priest and I don't even have a Catholic education!
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Post by Clotilde on Dec 2, 2016 14:33:45 GMT -5
Just remember that you don't have to explain it. People are way too nosy and demand to know things that are none of their business, and the flip side is that many people mistakenly think they need to explain their actions to others. But if you need an explanation, tell them that you are unsure whether the hosts in the tabernacle, which are consecrated at the NO, are actually truly consecrated. You are uncertain about the words on the consecration in the NO, the holy orders of any NO priest, and the episcopal consecration of any bishop under the revisions of Paul VI, aka Montini, because you have serious suspicions that he was not pope. That is the most concise way to put it. Clotilde and Voxxkowalski- I'm sorry, I should have clarified my post better instead of being vague. The person I am referring to is my husband. That is the reason for such concern. My husband grew up in Ireland in the 1950's and has a very good Catholic education, unlike me. He attended a Catholic University in Ireland. His parents, of course, were very Irish Catholic, unlike mine. He is a teacher at a Novus Ordo school. When I started attending the "Indult" Latin Mass he would go with me (although he would never go to receive Communion). He knows how much I love the Latin Mass. When I told him that I was no longer going to go there because of the issue with the Hosts, but was going to be attending the Ukranian Eastern Rite of the Roman Catholic Church, he stated that "there is only ONE ROMAN Catholic Church". (He says that the Priest knows what he is doing regarding the Hosts). He thinks I am leaving the Church by going to the Ukranians and insists I go back to the "Indult" Latin Mass. However, a short while ago he did admit about Francis "that man can't be a Pope". Any suggestions are very much appreciated. Again, sorry I wasn't clearer on my original post. I would have given you different advice if it was your husband! You should explain to him that the Church is like a pie. Does he like pie? Next, take out one skinny, tiny slice, like 10%. That is the Eastern rite in terms of population. Same pie, just a very small piece of the overall pie. They are fully Catholic, in union with Rome, and fully believe in the papacy. Rome considers the Eastern rites part of the Catholic Church. Make sure he understands the difference between the oriental schismatics and Eastern rite Catholics. As for the rest of the reasons, just pray for him and give him time. It is not worth the trouble of upsetting or potentially harming the faith of a spouse. I think it is important to make it clear that whatever you tell him, that you are not saying anything about him personally, his soul, or his belief. People often make this about them, and it is easy to hurt feelings and pride. I would probably leave Crisis issues: Paul VI, sedevacante, etc off the table for now. Don't overwhelm him and make your point slowly or not at all. Sometimes the truth shines through on its own to people of good will and we don't have to "do" anything.
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Post by Pacelli on Dec 2, 2016 14:55:42 GMT -5
First and foremost pray for him. Next, try to find a simple Q and A tract on eastern Catholicism and print it for him, there are many online. Also, see if he would be willing to meet and talk with the priest with you to have his questions answered. I would urge you to speak with the priest in advance, and let him know the difficulties your husband has in not understanding the Ukrainian rite. The one thing not to do is argue with him about it, that will just make him retreat on the subject and end all chances of helping him. Also, be careful about how much information you give him at once, you may overwhelm him, the only focus should be for now that the Ukrainian rite is Catholic, the complexity of the state of the Church and the issues of the Novus Ordo, etc. may overwhelm him. If he goes wth you to the Ukrainian rite, all of those issues will be, practically speaking, non-issues for him anyway. If you need some help finding an easy Q and A online, pm me, I have some ideas. For the last 2 yrs I have shared with him about the crisis in the church and the Novus Ordo and my reasons for only attending a Latin Mass. When I told him I could no longer attend the Latin Mass due to the Priest including the Novus Ordo Hosts in with the Latin Mass, he insists that the Priest "knows what he is doing" and insists that I still attend the "Indult". I guess by my saying the Priest is doing something wrong he thinks I think I "know better" than the Priest and I don't even have a Catholic education! You are giving him a lot of heavy and complex matters to dwell on. It might be a lot for him to digest. He might be thinking that you have gotten yourself involved with a sect, thinking that the Ukrainian rite is the Greek so called "Orthodox." The trouble here is that too many matters are being conflated. For now, I would not overwhelm him with all of the other concerns and if he is willing to discusss it with you, without getting defensive, just stick to one easily provable fact, that the Ukrainian rite is part of the Catholic Church and Catholics have always been allowed to go there for mass. The Ukrainian priests by and large do not grasp this crisis, when or if you go there, just go for the mass, and the reception of a certainly valid Holy Communion. Let that time just be the hour or so to forget this crisis and everything else, just immersing yourself in the graces of the Mass and Our Lord in Holy Communion.
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Post by RitaMarita on Dec 2, 2016 15:26:20 GMT -5
I am having great difficulty with a family member who doesn't understand why I won't go to the "Indult" Mass any longer. They just don't understand and I don't know if it is the way I am trying to explain it to them. Any suggestions on how to explain it? (The family member is Novus Ordo but would attend the "Indult" with me). My family members regularly go to a parish that has the Indult all the time, but I don't go with them... They sort of freaked out and asked me... The best way for me to explain this to them was tell them the simple truth: "The novus ordo Ordinations are doubtfully valid. So, even if it is a Tridintine Mass; I can not participate in it." Did you also know that there is a clause in the Indult Mass when it was "allowed" saying that anyone who attended it agreed by their presence there that the novus ordo was the Ordinary Form of the Mass and that there was nothing wrong with it...
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Post by RitaMarita on Dec 2, 2016 15:27:16 GMT -5
First and foremost pray for him. Next, try to find a simple Q and A tract on eastern Catholicism and print it for him, there are many online. Also, see if he would be willing to meet and talk with the priest with you to have his questions answered. I would urge you to speak with the priest in advance, and let him know the difficulties your husband has in not understanding the Ukrainian rite. The one thing not to do is argue with him about it, that will just make him retreat on the subject and end all chances of helping him. Also, be careful about how much information you give him at once, you may overwhelm him, the only focus should be for now that the Ukrainian rite is Catholic, the complexity of the state of the Church and the issues of the Novus Ordo, etc. may overwhelm him. If he goes wth you to the Ukrainian rite, all of those issues will be, practically speaking, non-issues for him anyway. If you need some help finding an easy Q and A online, pm me, I have some ideas. For the last 2 yrs I have shared with him about the crisis in the church and the Novus Ordo and my reasons for only attending a Latin Mass. When I told him I could no longer attend the Latin Mass due to the Priest including the Novus Ordo Hosts in with the Latin Mass, he insists that the Priest "knows what he is doing" and insists that I still attend the "Indult". I guess by my saying the Priest is doing something wrong he thinks I think I "know better" than the Priest and I don't even have a Catholic education! It is your husband??? That is tough... I will pray for you both...
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Post by Clotilde on Dec 2, 2016 15:57:14 GMT -5
For the last 2 yrs I have shared with him about the crisis in the church and the Novus Ordo and my reasons for only attending a Latin Mass. When I told him I could no longer attend the Latin Mass due to the Priest including the Novus Ordo Hosts in with the Latin Mass, he insists that the Priest "knows what he is doing" and insists that I still attend the "Indult". I guess by my saying the Priest is doing something wrong he thinks I think I "know better" than the Priest and I don't even have a Catholic education! It is your husband??? That is tough... I will pray for you both... Yeah, that changes things doesn't it? Unfortunately, my husband and I have been witnesses to marriages where these issues came up and husband and wife ended up separating or divorcing. They all had similar factors involved and the key thing being is that one spouse overwhelmed the other in their conversion or zeal.
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Post by Voxxkowalski on Dec 2, 2016 16:17:41 GMT -5
I am having great difficulty with a family member who doesn't understand why I won't go to the "Indult" Mass any longer. They just don't understand and I don't know if it is the way I am trying to explain it to them. Any suggestions on how to explain it? (The family member is Novus Ordo but would attend the "Indult" with me). Just remember that you don't have to explain it. People are way too nosy and demand to know things that are none of their business, and the flip side is that many people mistakenly think they need to explain their actions to others. But if you need an explanation, tell them that you are unsure whether the hosts in the tabernacle, which are consecrated at the NO, are actually truly consecrated. You are uncertain about the words on the consecration in the NO, the holy orders of any NO priest, and the episcopal consecration of any bishop under the revisions of Paul VI, aka Montini, because you have serious suspicions that he was not pope. That is the most concise way to put it. I dont think they will even comprehend any of that.
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Post by Pacelli on Dec 3, 2016 3:32:10 GMT -5
Eric wrote:
It's possible, but there is a subjective element to this. Each person must decide for himself, whether these risks apply to himself or those under his charge. Another way of saying it is this: each person must decide whether to freely give up the graces that God is offering him, due to the potential of scandal.
As I have said in my previous post, the risk of scandal is now and has been for a long time, everywhere, as the Church is no longer, practically speaking, being governed. What lawful authority governs the SSPX, CMRI, SSPV, Trento, the "Resistance" the independent priests, and any of the others? These priests go through unapproved "seminaries," their training and fitness have not been judged by lawful authority, and they operate without any lawful supervision. It's a recipe for a distaster, and in many cases this recipe has been the reality.
So, yes, there are risks from the 80 year old diocesan priest, and I would urge Catholics to be aware of those risks, maybe they are present, maybe not, but be aware.
"Stay at home Catholicism" also poses risks, with the number one among them being that a life without reception of Holy Communion will leave one spiritually weak against all sorts of temptations. It's like a life on a bowl of rice a day, yes you will survive, but you will be starving, weak, and will be in a poor position to defend against the enemy that is watching and stalking you, ever ready to attack.
Another danger to this that I have seen is that "stay home Catholicism" leads to isolation from other Catholics and in my view there is a real danger of schism or small pockets of sectarians who cut themselves off from other Catholics that will form. People tend to look for leaders, and if they can't find it in one place, they will look elsewhere, and in this case, to some layman or woman.
Am I saying that all "home-aloners" do this ” No, but I am highlighting that at every turn no matter which way you go there are risks, so you must be ever watchful as the watchmen are not watching out for you right now.
Eric wrote:
It's possible, but let's be clear on this, that the loss of Faith is the most important matter, not the loss of the sedevacantist position. But, as I said, the dangers are all around us, so we are either going to be firm in our Faith and seeking the truth on the state of the Church or there is a good chance that we will be swept into error or incorrect ideas no matter where we go to assist at mass.
There is no obligation under the law to chat with the priest or laypeople. If someone believes that he is too weak to maintain his theological integrity when speaking to others, he could just go to mass, and leave straight after. The only real risk, then, might be in the sermon, but from my knowledge of these sermons by these elderly priests, that it is according to their training, an explanation of the gospel of the day and how to live it, not a talk to defend the legitimacy of Francis' claim to the papacy, and a chance to talk potential sedevacantists into abandoning their position.
Eric wrote:
Again, possibly, but this also depends on how fickle they are to begin with. I have been around in this "traditional" Catholic world for a long time. I've seen people that seem stable one day flip to another position, go from "sedevacantist" or other "traditionalist" chapels to the Novus Ordo, or even worse to lose their Faith completely and even enter non-Catholic sects such as "orthodoxy" or Protestantism. I've also helplessly watched as so called "home-aloners" gradually lose the practice of their faith and live lives of sin. I could go on and on, but I think you get the point.
Once Catholics of today identify any priest, who is not their legitimately sent and and commissioned priest, as their lawful leader in this time, and blindly follow him, they are already at risk, no matter where they go to mass. The only hierarchy that commands our obedience is the divinely commissioned hierarchy, and the only priests we must to hear and to some extent obey are those sent and commissioned by one's diocesan bishop as a local pastor. It is only through re-learning these basic but apparently forgotten principles of our Faith that Catholics can insulate themselves against these types of dangers.
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Post by Voxxkowalski on Dec 3, 2016 8:17:35 GMT -5
veronica...I just caught that the person in question is your husband. This changes everything. You are subject to your husband...he has been given you by God and you are blest to have such a good Catholic man. I suggest...I strongly suggest you make yourself obedient to him in this matter. Remember now there is the sacrament of marriage at play...so to me it seems the Catholic thing for a Catholic wife to do is go back to the indult with your husband while at the same time educating him on the Ukrainian rite. The reasoning is simple...there were many great female saints who for the Sake of Jesus Christ obeyed even wicked husbands (not in wicked deeds of course) your husband is not at all a wicked man...but has the excusable malady of being like millions if others unable to grasp the depth of the problem. A practical work around is maybe you Go with him on Sunday to the indult...if you see anything funny going on with the wafers just refrain from recieving. And Veronica...really hear me...Our God is not an unjust merciless tyrant...He could never punish a wife being faithful to her husband because a Priest is decieved or mistaken.Now what would happen is your husband will notice you not recieving...*and dont make a big scene about it...just quitely pray and stay put*...This will give you something to TALK not argue about later. You could also tell the Priest that if he notices you not recieving its because you only want hosts CONSECRATED by HIM. Who knows maybe the Priest will come around and avoid the NO cookies and you will have done a great service. Finally...ask for a compromise with your husband...ask if you both might attend the Ukrainian service once a month. After of course you educate him about its Catholicity as others here have suggested. Just tell him how beautiful and edifying it is to you...that it makes you happy. A good husband always wants a happy wife. Veronica for perspective take a moment to consider the syrian Catholics living in aleppo right now...and the reason I say this is to encourage you in your struggle...these folks have to live daily with bombings and the horrors of a shooting war....all Trad Catholics like yourself find yourself stuck in the middle of a Spiritual civil war....not of your choosing...so we have to be prudent and wise and patient. You must begin to calm down and react more slowly...baby steps as they say. Your marriage is just as important a sacrament to God as is fulfilling your Sunday obligation. He is not a monster who will condemn a faithful woman doing her best...and anyone who says different just refer them to me and I will dispatch their silliness post haste. Love and Honor your husband...first...God will help you sort out the rest. You are doing Gods will in this...and in that you cannot err. Your friend..Voxx
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Post by Deleted on Dec 3, 2016 10:23:38 GMT -5
Voxxkowalski- Thank you so very, very much for your words of wisdom!! They are very well appreciated and received! By the way something has happened. My husband evidently asked the Religion teacher at the school where he teaches if what I was saying about the Ukranian Church and the Eastern Rites being apart of the Roman Catholic Church was true. The Religion teacher evidently affirmed what I had been telling him. Thanks to God!
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Post by Voxxkowalski on Dec 3, 2016 12:48:06 GMT -5
Voxxkowalski- Thank you so very, very much for your words of wisdom!! They are very well appreciated and received! By the way something has happened. My husband evidently asked the Religion teacher at the school where he teaches if what I was saying about the Ukranian Church and the Eastern Rites being apart of the Roman Catholic Church was true. The Religion teacher evidently affirmed what I had been telling him. Thanks to God! See...God is already working things out for you. Be patient.
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