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Post by RitaMarita on Jan 15, 2024 6:11:37 GMT -5
Thank for posting this Rita. I wish I could read the original interview in Sodalitium, but I can’t access their early issues. Anyway, you are correct. Bishop des Lauriers explains that, in his opinion, the una cum mass is an offense of sacrilege and schism, and those who participate willingly on the mass also partake in this offense. However, there are mitigating factors that can excuse an individual from this offense, namely: 1- Extrinsic factors that force the participation (a familiar reason for instance) 2- Ignorance 3- When, in a careful case by case matter, there is no other way to receive the sacraments. I’m simplifying his position, but I can translate the interview later if anyone is interested. Let me also state that I didn’t think my respect for Bp. des Lauriers could go any higher, but it just did. I think he is, alongside Fr. Garrigou-Lagrange, the greatest theologian of the 20th century. Thank you for this! I agree! 😇
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Post by RitaMarita on Jan 15, 2024 6:17:21 GMT -5
His Una Cum teaching is novel and not found in Church teaching. alyosha, please review the forum refuting this error. His thesis is also very novel. The point of this thread was not to argue whether the "una cum" or "non una cum" position is better. Only a true pope can decide this. I created this thread to point out that even Geurard Des Lauries (whom the strict "non una cum" people revere) said that people could and should go to the "una cum" Masses when there was not a better option near by. Basically... I found it interesting that Geurard des Lauries took a line similar to Bishop Pivarunas and did NOT agree with what the other super strict "non una cum" bishops and priests out there currently say.
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Post by RitaMarita on Jan 15, 2024 6:23:25 GMT -5
Quoting from the other thread another passage of Bishop Guerard des Lauries on the "una cum" topic: "Those who brandish anathamas by demanding the conditions of a false orthodoxy based on excessive legalism be fulfilled, while paying no heed to the needs of the faithful which this arbitrary intransigence deprives of sacraments, are no authentic witnesses to the Faith. They proclaim the form of "Misereor super SACRIFICIUM" but do not practice it in their lives. And in the last analysis, at least objectively, and perhaps in defense of their own cliques, they go on as if they were totally ignorant of the "Misereor super turbam." Those who submerge every doctrinal norm under the satanic slogan "we must change nothing" are not authentic witnesses to the Faith. Nor are those who flock to every location where the traditional form of worship is established in order to recruit partisans; who attack those who, because they have no alternatives, assist at a Mass which is said "una cum Wojtyla" and declare that such are guilty of sacrilege - at least objectively, and who then, in one way or another, induce said partisans who become fanatically faithful followers to nourish attitudes of duplicity in themselves every time they participate in the most sacred of realities. Such sectarians are not authentic witnesses to the Faith because they are not pure reflections of the Witness who is the Truth (John XIV, 6). They refer to Miserior super turbam"; but they are ignorant of the repercussions and the profound demands [of this concept] because in their lives and in reality they have profaned the OBLATIO MUNDA, and in so doing demonstrate concretely and essentially that they are, to say the least, strangers to "Misereor super SACRIFICIUM." (A)" web.archive.org/web/20080305062917/http://catholic.shrineofsaintjude.net/homec081.html(Also on this forum: tradcath.proboards.com/thread/2689/memory-thuc-guerard-des-lauriers)
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Post by RitaMarita on Jan 15, 2024 6:28:10 GMT -5
Note on the above quote...
Bishop Guerard says that they are not True Witnesses of the Faith who accuse those who attend the "una cum" of sacrilege when they have no other option.
This is the most revelant portion:
"Those...who attack those who, because they have no alternatives, assist at a Mass which is said "una cum Wojtyla" and declare that such are guilty of sacrilege - at least objectively...Such sectarians are not authentic witnesses to the Faith because they are not pure reflections of the Witness who is the Truth (John XIV, 6)."
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Post by Didymus on Jan 15, 2024 20:01:27 GMT -5
I really want to find the original citation of this, where could this paragraph appear? The simple reason why I want to find it is because this comment demolishes the whole rigorist argument of many who follow the Thesis. But I do not trust this page of "Archive" because I have tried to find the original quote and I can not find anything and I find it strange that something like this does not appear anywhere ... Have they wiped it off the map? I have no idea.
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alyosha
Junior Member
Whatever you do, do it all for the glory of God
Posts: 60
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Post by alyosha on Jan 16, 2024 5:36:19 GMT -5
Didymus, The original source is in Sodalitium #13, but I don’t know where to find editions before #27.
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Post by Didymus on Jan 16, 2024 15:05:30 GMT -5
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alyosha
Junior Member
Whatever you do, do it all for the glory of God
Posts: 60
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Post by alyosha on Jan 16, 2024 15:41:36 GMT -5
Sorry, I misunderstood what you wanted. I thought you were talking about the interview posted in the original post of this thread.
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