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Post by Pacelli on Jun 13, 2016 22:04:10 GMT -5
Yes Recusant,
What you are saying is correct. Public sinners are not allowed to receive the sacraments. It is for the priest in confession or his legitimate bishop to determine what reparations must be made, if any, and we most likely will not be privy to such information.
I do not think, though, that this is Voxx' point, he is dealing with a different matter, and is urging Catholics to remember their own sins rather than worry about Mr. Gibson's transgressions.
There are two separate issues at play here, and you are both correct in what you are saying.
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Caillin
Approved Cath Resource contributor
Posts: 136
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Post by Caillin on Jun 13, 2016 22:31:38 GMT -5
Mel bewilders me. If ever I see a new photo of him, it seems I fist notice a Miraculous Medal visibly hanging from his neck, which gives me a very momentary pleasant and hopeful thought that he's getting his life straightened out, but then I notice his latest concubine in the same photo. Baffled. What is going through his head? Does he think he's not married to his wife? I thought I heard at one point that his father and some others held a meeting and determined his marriage was never valid. Does anyone know if that happened, and if so, how they came to that conclusion?
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Post by Pacelli on Jun 13, 2016 22:48:17 GMT -5
Mel bewilders me. If ever I see a new photo of him, it seems I fist notice a Miraculous Medal visibly hanging from his neck, which gives me a very momentary pleasant and hopeful thought that he's getting his life straightened out, but then I notice his latest concubine in the same photo. Baffled. What is going through his head? Does he think he's not married to his wife? I thought I heard at one point that his father and some others held a meeting and determined his marriage was never valid. Does anyone know if that happened, and if so, how they came to that conclusion? I agree with you, I can't figure him out. He and his father must know that annulments can only be granted by the Pope, so any claim to such is ridiculous. It seems that more and more Catholics with troubled marriages are seeking annulments from non-authorities. I keep hearing stories like these. He shows that he still has the Catholic Faith, by some of his actions. I have seen a picture of him wearing a Scapular as well, in addition to the miraculous medal. Maybe he's just a fallen and weak man who just needs prayers, but still has kept the Faith? Whenever I think of him, I always try to remember to pray for him. He has the potential to do so much good if he turns back to the path of righteousness. On one hand he is a scandalous public sinner that we must never put on a pedestal, but on the other hand he is our brother in the Faith and is sorely in need of our prayers.
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MelGibson
New Member
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Post by MelGibson on Jun 14, 2016 1:02:40 GMT -5
Mel bewilders me. If ever I see a new photo of him, it seems I fist notice a Miraculous Medal visibly hanging from his neck, which gives me a very momentary pleasant and hopeful thought that he's getting his life straightened out, but then I notice his latest concubine in the same photo. Baffled. What is going through his head? Does he think he's not married to his wife? I thought I heard at one point that his father and some others held a meeting and determined his marriage was never valid. Does anyone know if that happened, and if so, how they came to that conclusion? It could be his "marriage" never was.
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Greg
Junior Member
Posts: 84
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Post by Greg on Jun 14, 2016 1:46:47 GMT -5
I dunno...was dante a saint? Shakespeare? I dont hold him as a trad except compared to hollywood. I think he was scummy cheating on his wife...but I dont think Mel had a man sent to his death so he could steal his wife. How bout you Greg...you living a perfectly saintly life?. Im trying but Um not even close. My life would be viewed by most as more virtuous that Gibson's currently for sure. And I am neither making a film, nor writing a book, about the resurrection. Unfortunately, things being what they are, people will not be able to entirely separate the message or teaching of the film from the messanger. They'll wonder why a man wants to tell them about an event freeing them from sin whilst immersing himself in it publicly. Most will either re-enforce their belief that adultery and fornication are no big deal and "God understands" and therefore tolerates such behaviours as long as we are "nithe" or that Christians are a bunch of hypocrites who talk the talk but don't walk the walk. Former sodomites have no business running Catholic lay apostolates and public adulterers and fornicators should not be making films about the Resurrection. As for Gibson "not being married", even the suggestion of such, with 7 children, makes Traditionalists look like a bunch of utter legalistic wankers who have no love for justice. A semi decent Catholic would stick by the woman who had been a mother to 7 of his children if for no other reason than the avoidance of public scandal.
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Post by Pacelli on Jun 14, 2016 2:34:26 GMT -5
Mel bewilders me. If ever I see a new photo of him, it seems I fist notice a Miraculous Medal visibly hanging from his neck, which gives me a very momentary pleasant and hopeful thought that he's getting his life straightened out, but then I notice his latest concubine in the same photo. Baffled. What is going through his head? Does he think he's not married to his wife? I thought I heard at one point that his father and some others held a meeting and determined his marriage was never valid. Does anyone know if that happened, and if so, how they came to that conclusion? It could be his "marriage" never was. It could be, but only a Pope can make such a declaration.
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Post by Pacelli on Jun 14, 2016 2:38:13 GMT -5
I dunno...was dante a saint? Shakespeare? I dont hold him as a trad except compared to hollywood. I think he was scummy cheating on his wife...but I dont think Mel had a man sent to his death so he could steal his wife. How bout you Greg...you living a perfectly saintly life?. Im trying but Um not even close. My life would be viewed by most as more virtuous that Gibson's currently for sure. And I am neither making a film, nor writing a book, about the resurrection. Unfortunately, things being what they are, people will not be able to entirely separate the message or teaching of the film from the messanger. They'll wonder why a man wants to tell them about an event freeing them from sin whilst immersing himself in it publicly. Most will either re-enforce their belief that adultery and fornication are no big deal and "God understands" and therefore tolerates such behaviours as long as we are "nithe" or that Christians are a bunch of hypocrites who talk the talk but don't walk the walk. Former sodomites have no business running Catholic lay apostolates and public adulterers and fornicators should not be making films about the Resurrection. As for Gibson "not being married", even the suggestion of such, with 7 children, makes Traditionalists look like a bunch of utter legalistic wankers who have no love for justice. A semi decent Catholic would stick by the woman who had been a mother to 7 of his children if for no other reason than the avoidance of public scandal. All good points, and symptoms of our life without the hierarchy.
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Post by Voxxkowalski on Jun 14, 2016 5:22:56 GMT -5
My point was not to excuse Gibson...forgive me if I gave that impression. And yes Pacelli is right...Ive never been able to fully condemn fellow Catholics because of their sins unless they are openly trying to destroy the faith with those sins...because Ive been very sinful in my life. Another point though was Ive learned to seperate artists from their creations. I think Gibson is an excellent director and producer. In the modern media culture artistry and celebrity are comingled to such a degree that it would seem accepting one means accepting the other. I can seperate...some cant. Btw...Didnt they just make a pretty good movie about the resurrection? I actually think Mel is making a wrong move in making this...hes too late. Wheres the movie on the maccabees?
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recusant
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Posts: 86
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Post by recusant on Jun 14, 2016 7:46:33 GMT -5
Mel bewilders me. If ever I see a new photo of him, it seems I fist notice a Miraculous Medal visibly hanging from his neck, which gives me a very momentary pleasant and hopeful thought that he's getting his life straightened out, but then I notice his latest concubine in the same photo. Baffled. What is going through his head? Does he think he's not married to his wife? I thought I heard at one point that his father and some others held a meeting and determined his marriage was never valid. Does anyone know if that happened, and if so, how they came to that conclusion? It could be his "marriage" never was. True, but I see no obvious impediment in his case. A marriage is presumed to be valid unless the contrary is proven and is judged invalid by an ecclesiastical court.
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recusant
Approved Cath Resource contributor
Posts: 86
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Post by recusant on Jun 14, 2016 8:08:14 GMT -5
My point was not to excuse Gibson...forgive me if I gave that impression. And yes Pacelli is right...Ive never been able to fully condemn fellow Catholics because of their sins unless they are openly trying to destroy the faith with those sins...because Ive been very sinful in my life. Another point though was Ive learned to seperate artists from their creations. I think Gibson is an excellent director and producer. In the modern media culture artistry and celebrity are comingled to such a degree that it would seem accepting one means accepting the other. I can seperate...some cant. Btw...Didnt they just make a pretty good movie about the resurrection? I actually think Mel is making a wrong move in making this...hes too late. Wheres the movie on the maccabees? Very good points Voxx and I see where you are coming from, please believe me when I say that I don't think that I'm a better person because I'm not doing the things he is. I am well aware that I can fall very easily. My biggest problem with him is the fact that he is a role model in our modern society and as such, he is a very bad one to follow and his scandals give people a bad impression of traditional Catholism. Also, I must say that I very much pray that Gibson repents and then I would accept him with open arms. His main problems seem to be: 1) he is a recidivist 2) he lives a highly public scandalous life 3) he has not made public reparations for the scandal he has caused. In order to combat this, he must leave the Hollywood lifestyle for good. ********sorry for the derailment of the thread***********
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Post by Voxxkowalski on Jun 14, 2016 8:17:23 GMT -5
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Post by heinrich on Jun 18, 2016 21:32:45 GMT -5
Is Button Gibson a sedevacantist?
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MelGibson
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Posts: 38
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Post by MelGibson on Jun 19, 2016 18:48:20 GMT -5
Is Button Gibson a sedevacantist? That would be Hutton. Yes he is a sedevacantist.
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Post by heinrich on Jun 20, 2016 10:10:47 GMT -5
Is Button Gibson a sedevacantist? That would be Hutton. Yes he is a sedevacantist. And that was auto correct on my phone, which is set to German. Odd. Do sedevacantists believe they have the authority, as laymen, to decide on the validity of marriages and grant annulments?
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Post by Voxxkowalski on Jun 20, 2016 10:52:20 GMT -5
That would be Hutton. Yes he is a sedevacantist. And that was auto correct on my phone, which is set to German. Odd. Do sedevacantists believe they have the authority, as laymen, to decide on the validity of marriages and grant annulments? That would be...no.
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