Lane-Cekada Debate on Ignis Ardens (2012)

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Reader: Hi, frequent reader here. The elections are coming up so could you please post some pre-Conciliar sources that explain why Catholics are not allowed to join political parties that support abortion, sodomy, or other violations of the moral law? Jul 22, 2024 5:08:26 GMT -5
Pacelli: Reader, the Pre-V2 sources didn't deal with joining political parties, but on the morality of voting. Jul 22, 2024 8:04:52 GMT -5
Reader: But is there anything about joining a society which supports policies or principles against the moral law, or the faith? How do I prove to my friend that it is not licit for a Catholic to join such a society (in this case it's a party) Jul 22, 2024 8:54:24 GMT -5
Reader: I know there are specific documents against joining masonic societies, but is there something in general about joining not secret but public societies which advocate principles against Catholic faith and morals? Any help is greatly appreciated. Jul 22, 2024 8:59:17 GMT -5
Pacelli: Reader, political parties cannot be confused with sects. When the Church condemned masonry and communism, they were condemned as sects. Jul 22, 2024 9:16:40 GMT -5
Reader: I don't think it's that simple because not just those but every society that demanded secrecy was condemned, regardless of its doctrine. Also, it is not a settled question whether the Communist Party is to be considered a sect in the proper sense. Jul 22, 2024 10:16:51 GMT -5
Reader: The Holy Office mentions the Communist Party, it does not state that it is a sect. Regardless, there must be some mention somewhere of joining an organization which promotes policies against the law of faith and morals, isn't there? Jul 22, 2024 10:20:37 GMT -5
Pacelli: Reader, until a sect is condemned by the Pope, a Catholic would not fall under a censure. Even if you want to try to argue that a modern political party is a sect, a Catholic would remain without censure by joining it. Jul 22, 2024 10:20:46 GMT -5
Reader: I am not talking about a censure, like excommunication. I just mean that it is a sin to join an organization that promotes the murder of unborn children, the unnatural vice and other things against the law of faith and morals... Jul 22, 2024 10:22:47 GMT -5
Reader: and I am looking for a statement by theologians or by Catholic Authority about that (even in a very general unspecific form) that I can show my friend. Jul 22, 2024 10:24:20 GMT -5
Pacelli: Reader, it doesn't exist in this situation. The political parties do not demand adherence to their platforms, so joining these parties does not indicate one accepts these ideas. Jul 22, 2024 11:23:52 GMT -5
Pacelli: There are no sources that support your thesis, and if you do find any, I would be very surprised. Jul 22, 2024 11:24:26 GMT -5
Reader: What about cooperation in evil and Romans 1:32? To become a member of a political party is to give implicit consent to their official policy, and if that policy includes promoting and voting for murder, sodomy etc., it implies agreement. Jul 22, 2024 12:07:04 GMT -5
Reader: Isn't that the reason why joining the Communist Party was always considered a sin (unless under duress), even if not every member was necessarily excommunicated - because to join the Party implies agreement with its evil doctrines. Jul 22, 2024 12:09:45 GMT -5
Reader: Romans, 1:32: "Who, having known the justice of God, did not understand that they who do such things, are worthy of death: and not only they that do them, but they also that consent to them that do them." Jul 22, 2024 12:11:39 GMT -5
Pacelli: If you want to make the case based on a rigorous use of sources, I'll read it. As it stands now, I'm not seeing it. There are many problems with your idea, which is why you won't find any moralist holding it. Jul 22, 2024 12:12:07 GMT -5 *
Reader: Can you please elaborate about those problems you refer to? Jul 22, 2024 12:14:40 GMT -5
Pacelli: This would be much easier in the forum than the shoutbox. Jul 22, 2024 12:20:07 GMT -5
Voxxkowalski: Heading to 500 members soon! Aug 18, 2024 11:32:57 GMT -5
maryveronica: Who has read "The Book of Destiny" by Herman Bernard F. Leonard Kramer? It is a commentary on the Book of Revelation written in 1956. I had never read a Catholic viewpoint and my priest said it was approved to read. I highly recommend it. Aug 19, 2024 13:40:26 GMT -5
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