Eastern Rite Issues - Response to Incorrect Assertions
Jun 21, 2017 17:57:53 GMT -5
Voxxkowalski likes this
Post by Pacelli on Jun 21, 2017 17:57:53 GMT -5
Someone sent me this exchange and asked me to comment on it:
Anonymous (wrote)
.
Reply (by Author)
The anonymous writer was correct, many Roman rite Catholics fled from the Novus Ordo to the eastern rites in the 70's and 80's and by that found a safe shelter in the storm.
The reply is made up of gratuitous assertions. What does it mean to be in union with a non-pope anyway? Is it a fact that if a Catholic, i.e. one that believes the Faith, and also that Francis is Pope, is automatically a heretic, schismatic, or apostate? I would like to see that proven.
It seems to me that what the person is saying here is that the Conciliar sect is a declared sect, and therefore all who are "in" it are automatically outside the Church. If he thinks that, let him say it, and not dance around it, and once he says it, prove it.
Anonymous (wrote)
Reply (Author)
This man simply has no clue what he's talking about, The eastern Code did not change the sacramental rites! Actually, with very little effort one can find out a lot of information about the eastern rites. It is a fact that their rites are essentially intact. There are two areas where some non-essential changes have occurred.
1. Latinizations: some eastern rites have embraced as a whole some "Novus Ordo-isms," wrongly called Latinizations. Some examples are the priest facing the people, standing during the consecration and for holy communion, women lacking head covering etc. It should be noted that some practices are done only at the parish level and are not widespread, such as the use of altar girl. Some examles can be found of interfaith ecumenical prayer, but from what I have seen it is only isolated cases of some clerics and not the norm among most of them.
2. Delatinizations: Many eastern rites in contrast to the above are obsessed with delatinzing their rites, not only from Novus Ordo, but from the Roman rite of old. Some will argue that delatinization is the reason for some of the changes in #1 above.
Regardless of the delatinization/latinization debate, one thing is clear, the eastern rites essentially remain unchanged and intact. Their holy orders, both episcopal and sacerdotal are unquestionably valid, their Divine Liturgy (Mass) is unquestionably valid and is not an incentive to impiety. There is no Novus Ordo of the eastern rite.
There might be a good reason to avoid some eastern rite priests or parishes, but that is not the norm. Many are perfectly safe, and are the home to many Catholics, including Roman Rite refugees who had made the eastern rite their home, many for decades.
This is why I wrote the disclaimer and advice found HERE and Vox, who is an eastern rite Catholic, and has his entire life as real experience in the eastern rites, added many more good points. I am not going to sugar coat the eastern rites, and say that it is utopia. There are some problems there, but overall I have argued that as a general rule, with some exceptions, it is a safe place to go for the sacraments during this crisis, from the 1970's even to today.
Anonymous (wrote)
Instead of the 'Novus Ordo' - Go to the Byzantine Catholic Liturgy!!! It is still reverent and is how I escaped from painful experiences of the 'NO' to the Christ centered worship.. not man centered
Reply (by Author)
This is NOT an option. The Byzantine Uniates are in actual union with Francis and his heresies (as well as all Vatican II heresies). They have had their Codes of Canon Law "updated", to be in line with Vatican II, and have even tampered with the Sacraments, calling them into doubt. To be in union with Francis is to be out of union with the One True Church of Christ. Reverence cannot take the place of the truth!! Stay away from the Byzantines.
The anonymous writer was correct, many Roman rite Catholics fled from the Novus Ordo to the eastern rites in the 70's and 80's and by that found a safe shelter in the storm.
The reply is made up of gratuitous assertions. What does it mean to be in union with a non-pope anyway? Is it a fact that if a Catholic, i.e. one that believes the Faith, and also that Francis is Pope, is automatically a heretic, schismatic, or apostate? I would like to see that proven.
It seems to me that what the person is saying here is that the Conciliar sect is a declared sect, and therefore all who are "in" it are automatically outside the Church. If he thinks that, let him say it, and not dance around it, and once he says it, prove it.
Anonymous (wrote)
It is very difficult to find any info on how/when the Byzantines changed their Sacraments.
I do know more than a handful (but not all!) use the vernacular and stopped using Greek/Ukranian/etc., started facing the people, and embraced 'modern worship ideas' in the early 80's.
I do know more than a handful (but not all!) use the vernacular and stopped using Greek/Ukranian/etc., started facing the people, and embraced 'modern worship ideas' in the early 80's.
Reply (Author)
You are correct that the details are not readily available. However, Wojtyla had all Eastern Rites Codes of Canon Law ' updated' in 1990 to 'reflect the changes of Vatican II.
This man simply has no clue what he's talking about, The eastern Code did not change the sacramental rites! Actually, with very little effort one can find out a lot of information about the eastern rites. It is a fact that their rites are essentially intact. There are two areas where some non-essential changes have occurred.
1. Latinizations: some eastern rites have embraced as a whole some "Novus Ordo-isms," wrongly called Latinizations. Some examples are the priest facing the people, standing during the consecration and for holy communion, women lacking head covering etc. It should be noted that some practices are done only at the parish level and are not widespread, such as the use of altar girl. Some examles can be found of interfaith ecumenical prayer, but from what I have seen it is only isolated cases of some clerics and not the norm among most of them.
2. Delatinizations: Many eastern rites in contrast to the above are obsessed with delatinzing their rites, not only from Novus Ordo, but from the Roman rite of old. Some will argue that delatinization is the reason for some of the changes in #1 above.
Regardless of the delatinization/latinization debate, one thing is clear, the eastern rites essentially remain unchanged and intact. Their holy orders, both episcopal and sacerdotal are unquestionably valid, their Divine Liturgy (Mass) is unquestionably valid and is not an incentive to impiety. There is no Novus Ordo of the eastern rite.
There might be a good reason to avoid some eastern rite priests or parishes, but that is not the norm. Many are perfectly safe, and are the home to many Catholics, including Roman Rite refugees who had made the eastern rite their home, many for decades.
This is why I wrote the disclaimer and advice found HERE and Vox, who is an eastern rite Catholic, and has his entire life as real experience in the eastern rites, added many more good points. I am not going to sugar coat the eastern rites, and say that it is utopia. There are some problems there, but overall I have argued that as a general rule, with some exceptions, it is a safe place to go for the sacraments during this crisis, from the 1970's even to today.