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Post by Pacelli on Jun 19, 2017 23:14:17 GMT -5
This is from the article I posted in the resourse library LINK and I didn't want Fr. Cekada's excellent and thought-provoking conclusion to be missed, so I am posting it here:
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Post by Voxxkowalski on Jun 20, 2017 4:40:54 GMT -5
This is from the article I posted in the resourse library and I didn't want Fr. Cekada's excellent and thought-provoking conclusion to be missed, so I am posting it here: Β I didnt read the article...who is he refering to...sspx?
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Post by magdalena on Jun 20, 2017 8:13:07 GMT -5
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Post by Voxxkowalski on Jun 20, 2017 11:19:29 GMT -5
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Post by Pacelli on Jun 20, 2017 13:14:19 GMT -5
Vox,
The article covers:
1. The absurdity in how the +Thuc line was formed.
2. That +Thuc himself was completely reckless in his use of his episcopal powers in consecrating bishops.
3. That there are many unanswered questions (even to this day) surrounding the +Thuc episcopal consecrations.
4. That there is the real possibility that consecrations such as these will continue to multiply further dividing the unity of the Church.
5. That the bishops of these lines may usurp authority that they do not have, thus creating a schismatic parellel hierarchy, and by that the real possibility of creating schismatic sects.
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Post by Clotilde on Jun 20, 2017 13:26:56 GMT -5
Let me give you my summary: Back when Fr. Cekada was very different he wrote an this article against mostly the Thuc lines, targeting those who were ordaining everyone and their brother. At this time, he carried over some of his bias against Abp. Thuc from his time in the SSPV. However, over time this article has sort of disappeared, probably due to the fact that then Father Dolan sought episcopal consecration from Bishop Pivarunas. Cekada previously held the position that episcopal consecrations should be done rarely. Later, Father Sanborn requested episcopal consecration from Bp.McKenna, who for all the good he had done, consecrated quite a few bishops, some did not work out so well. The last point is that Fr. Cekada rightly pointed out that these bishops and priests tend to usurp authority and create their own churches. Given the way events later played out, and the difficulty in finding this article, we see a shift in thinking on all points.
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Deleted
Past Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Jun 21, 2017 9:51:09 GMT -5
I have written a great deal on this topic, as I spent years researching it motivated by having family personally involved in the split. I have kept a large amount of this writing private, because I know it will be misused by those with an agenda who frequent the fora of which I have been a member, but perhaps my membership here will see some of that writing posted here. Thanks for the thread.
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Post by Voxxkowalski on Jun 21, 2017 10:27:17 GMT -5
I have written a great deal on this topic, as I spent years researching it motivated by having family personally involved in the split. I have kept a large amount of this writing private, because I know it will be misused by those with an agenda who frequent the fora of which I have been a member, but perhaps my membership here will see some of that writing posted here. Thanks for the thread. My agenda is a forum where faithful Catholics can discourse in peace and trust. No games no deliberate drama...no sectarianism or this group that group...etc etc. I want a community with civility.
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Post by Voxxkowalski on Jun 21, 2017 10:29:50 GMT -5
And I will have it By God in heaven!ππππππππππππππππππππππΏπΏπΏ
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Deleted
Past Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Jun 21, 2017 11:24:25 GMT -5
I have written a great deal on this topic, as I spent years researching it motivated by having family personally involved in the split. I have kept a large amount of this writing private, because I know it will be misused by those with an agenda who frequent the fora of which I have been a member, but perhaps my membership here will see some of that writing posted here. Thanks for the thread. My agenda is a forum where faithful Catholics can discourse in peace and trust. No games no deliberate drama...no sectarianism or this group that group...etc etc. I want a community with civility. Thanks, Voxx. I have noticed this already, and I must say I am very edifice by it. In fact, it is because of my minimal experience here that I have decided to terminate my activity on SD, as soon as I wrap up the debate I'm involved in there. I get a feeling of peace here; I feel nothing but discord there.
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Post by Voxxkowalski on Jun 21, 2017 11:40:04 GMT -5
Bring some like minded people.
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Post by kim on Jun 23, 2017 1:33:09 GMT -5
Thuc was wreckless; it's true. Don't know how much old age and diabetes played into that wrecklessness. But he did have a mandate from Pius XII allowing him to consecrate without direct papal Permission given the persecutions that were heating up in Vietnam Nam. He wasn't perfect, but I'll take one of his bishops over any Cupich, Paglia or Tobin.
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Post by Pacelli on Jun 23, 2017 12:44:17 GMT -5
Thuc was wreckless; it's true. Don't know how much old age and diabetes played into that wrecklessness. But he did have a mandate from Pius XII allowing him to consecrate without direct papal Permission given the persecutions that were heating up in Vietnam Nam. He wasn't perfect, but I'll take one of his bishops over any Cupich, Paglia or Tobin. The only permission he presumably had in Vietnam was to appoint and consecrate bishops to sees in his home country, and that the was from Pius XI. No bishop has a mandate to just consecrate any bishop. When the Holy See allows bishops in certain countries this power, it is always for the purpose of filling vacant sees. The Pope in essence is saying to a bishop, "we can't appoint in your country due to difficulties there, so we are trusting you to make that judgment for us." There is no permission to ever consecrate vagrant bishops lacking a See, and most especially not with the purpose of allowing them to remain vagrant and autonomous.
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myrnam
Junior Member
100th Member
Posts: 94
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Post by myrnam on Jun 23, 2017 14:04:43 GMT -5
Father Cekada has perhaps been misled when he wrote whatever about +Thuc no one knows exactly about such recklessness, and Bishop Pivarunas has proven by his good fruits that he is of God. I have heard otherwise regarding Archbishop Ngo Dinh Thuc directly from Father Francis Miller. OFM during a Fatima Conference at Mt. St. Michael, a priest that had direct contact with the good Archbishop.
Father Miller's words have been recorded and the tapes are available through the center there at the Mount. I recommend people of good will should hear it directly from the man who was with +Thuc you just might have a change of heart as Father Cekada.
God works in ways sometimes we don't understand, nor do we see the entire picture, this mandate is more than just a coincident.
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Post by Clotilde on Jun 23, 2017 14:14:53 GMT -5
Father Cekada has perhaps been misled when he wrote whatever about +Thuc no one knows exactly about such recklessness, and Bishop Pivarunas has proven by his good fruits that he is of God. I have heard otherwise regarding Archbishop Ngo Dinh Thuc directly from Father Francis Miller. OFM during a Fatima Conference at Mt. St. Michael, a priest that had direct contact with the good Archbishop. Father Miller's words have been recorded and the tapes are available through the center there at the Mount. I recommend people of good will should hear it directly from the man who was with +Thuc you just might have a change of heart as Father Cekada. God works in ways sometimes we don't understand, nor do we see the entire picture, this mandate is more than just a coincident. The purpose in posting this article was not to rehash the Thuc issue, but to show a shift in thinking.
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