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Post by Banned snake on May 6, 2017 19:07:23 GMT -5
It depends on how you are using the term, " condemned." What? So you refuse to admit the obvious that the above documents condemn countless numbers of unnamed individuals as heretics? This is unbelievable. The source I gave to you is clear on this matter, do you dispute the source? I don't remember the source in questions and I don't care for now. This is still a lingering issue that is besides the point. We can come back to this. Actually, how about you stop rashly judging my intentions. FYI, your judgment on this matter is incorrect. Shall I list a list of snide remarks? Lets just move on and try to control ourselves. Hopefully we can get to the issue at hand. 1. The Novus Ordo is a non-Catholic sect... YES or NO 2. Vatican II promulgates heresy... YES or NO
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Post by Banned snake on May 6, 2017 19:10:25 GMT -5
I am curious as to where M goes for Mass. Vox... this is irrelevant to the issue at hand. I don't receive sacraments from anyone in union with the Novus Ordo sect. That should suffice for the issue at hand. Pax
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Post by Voxxkowalski on May 6, 2017 19:15:42 GMT -5
I am curious as to where M goes for Mass. Vox... this is irrelevant to the issue at hand. I don't receive sacraments from anyone in union with the Novus Ordo sect. That should suffice for the issue at hand. Pax No it is not irrelevant...how do I know you dont have some members where you receive communion who are heretics? And since youve judged my Parish at the Ukrainian Church to be heretical and I should avoid them you owe it to me to tell me WHERE I CAN GO. Why is it a secret? It is extremely relevant to me as you are being hypocritical. Youve made yourself a Judge over the Ukrainians...I want you to tell me where you go. If you dont share this info then you are being very disingenuous.
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Post by Pacelli on May 6, 2017 19:44:43 GMT -5
Michael wrote: All of this is not relevant to this discussion, the fact of the existance of a sect is not something we disagree on. The Novus Ordo is a non-Catholic sect. YES/NO There is a sect, it does not have a name.
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Post by Pacelli on May 6, 2017 19:47:14 GMT -5
Are you referring to the teaching documents?
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Post by Pacelli on May 6, 2017 19:49:46 GMT -5
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Post by Pacelli on May 6, 2017 19:55:54 GMT -5
1. There is a sect, it lacks a definitive name, but it is commonly called the Conciliar sect, the Conciliar church, or the Novus Ordo. Just realize that these names need to be used informally and cautiously, because their usage carries risks.
2. Yes.
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Post by Pacelli on May 6, 2017 20:05:02 GMT -5
Why are you interpreting the comment as a dig towards yourself? Context. You wouldn't have said it HERE if you didn't want to apply it to your debate adversary (me). Cute and underhanded. How about we stick to the facts moving forward yes? I said it in response to Vox' post. Catholics who are older, therefore closer to the time before the crisis learned better how to be Catholics, to trust the Church, to look to their authorized leaders for answers. It was not a dig against you personally, rather an observation and conclusion that I have made over a long time. Now that I have clarified this for you, it should be clear to you that you rashly judged the matter. If you want to avoid that in the future, you can always ask, and try to get to the bottom of things before making a conclusion.
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Post by Banned snake on May 9, 2017 18:06:33 GMT -5
No it is not irrelevant...how do I know you dont have some members where you receive communion who are heretics? And since youve judged my Parish at the Ukrainian Church to be heretical and I should avoid them you owe it to me to tell me WHERE I CAN GO. Why is it a secret? It is extremely relevant to me as you are being hypocritical. Youve made yourself a Judge over the Ukrainians...I want you to tell me where you go. If you dont share this info then you are being very disingenuous. This is emotionalism... and it has nothing to do with the argument. Also... its not the "members" but the "priest" who matters in this case. And we are NOT talking about secret heresy but PUBLIC membership in a sect that has an anti-Catholic clown posing as "pope". Its not my responsibility to make sure you have sacraments available. That said... there is only one place I know for SURE that has valid and lawful sacraments available in the Continental United States. There may be others... its not my job to find them for you. Not that I wouldn't help if you asked, but this is NOT what you are doing. I have not made myself "the judge of the Ukranians" I was hoping there was some in this country that have separated themselves from the Novus Ordo sect. But that has proven NOT to be the case SADLY. I thought you were Byzantine? Same problem, however so I feel for your situation. Feelings however do not matter in this case. It is un-Catholic and criminal to receive sacraments from CLERGY in union with the Novus Ordo sect. If you would like help finding a place where you can lawfully receive SAFE sacraments then we can talk. But I'm not publishing online any details. We've had enough trouble from the establishment goons, and the plan B goons.
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Post by Banned snake on May 9, 2017 18:15:07 GMT -5
Are you referring to the teaching documents? Condemnation of Luther in particular... condemns COUNTLESS unnamed people. You seem very confused about this. Hopefully we can get to the issue at hand. 1. The Novus Ordo is a non-Catholic sect... YES or NO 2. Vatican II promulgates heresy... YES or NO 1. There is a sect, it lacks a definitive name, but it is commonly called the Conciliar sect, the Conciliar church, or the Novus Ordo. Just realize that these names need to be used informally and cautiously, because their usage carries risks. 2. Yes. Who cares about the name? We know who they are. So, there we have it... Vatican II promulgated heresy. You agree. Now we can get somewhere. If Vatican II promulgated heresy unchecked... then those who promulgate and/or assist in the promulgation of said heresy become heretics do they not? You never did post the rest of the pages dealing with HERETICS and those ASSISTING in heresy. That might prove to be interesting.
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Post by Voxxkowalski on May 9, 2017 18:45:16 GMT -5
No it is not irrelevant...how do I know you dont have some members where you receive communion who are heretics? And since youve judged my Parish at the Ukrainian Church to be heretical and I should avoid them you owe it to me to tell me WHERE I CAN GO. Why is it a secret? It is extremely relevant to me as you are being hypocritical. Youve made yourself a Judge over the Ukrainians...I want you to tell me where you go. If you dont share this info then you are being very disingenuous. This is emotionalism... and it has nothing to do with the argument. Also... its not the "members" but the "priest" who matters in this case. And we are NOT talking about secret heresy but PUBLIC membership in a sect that has an anti-Catholic clown posing as "pope". Its not my responsibility to make sure you have sacraments available. That said... there is only one place I know for SURE that has valid and lawful sacraments available in the Continental United States. There may be others... its not my job to find them for you. Not that I wouldn't help if you asked, but this is NOT what you are doing. I have not made myself "the judge of the Ukranians" I was hoping there was some in this country that have separated themselves from the Novus Ordo sect. But that has proven NOT to be the case SADLY. I thought you were Byzantine? Same problem, however so I feel for your situation. Feelings however do not matter in this case. It is un-Catholic and criminal to receive sacraments from CLERGY in union with the Novus Ordo sect. If you would like help finding a place where you can lawfully receive SAFE sacraments then we can talk. But I'm not publishing online any details. We've had enough trouble from the establishment goons, and the plan B goons. Emotionalism my eye! Answer the question...where do you go for communion.Its perfectly relevant. Give me a good reason to keep it secret?
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Post by Voxxkowalski on May 9, 2017 18:47:25 GMT -5
You can pm me. There are no goons here.
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Post by Banned snake on May 9, 2017 20:44:33 GMT -5
Now that I have clarified this for you, it should be clear to you that you rashly judged the matter. If you want to avoid that in the future, you can always ask, and try to get to the bottom of things before making a conclusion. This is the last comment I'm going to make about snarky comments... its beneath you. Perhaps if you'd like to "avoid confusion" and "rash judgement" you could refrain from snide remarks before inserting ambiguous comments that most likely pertain to the individual you've been making snide remarks to... just a thought. I'll be ignoring all future snide comments. Making a joke out of it to lighten the mood seems to go nowhere. Worth a shot I guess. I'll also be ignoring any more references to this issue.
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Post by Banned snake on May 9, 2017 20:45:17 GMT -5
I would like to delve into this later. Thanks for reminding me.
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Post by Banned snake on May 9, 2017 20:50:01 GMT -5
Perfect example of "emotionalism". Answer my question first, if you would... I've asked you the following: Do you think it would be lawful to attend "orthodox" or "anglican" services... receive their "sacraments" then "full stop", as long as you have a web site where you openly refute their heresies and schism? If not... why not? Yes or No... and why or why not?
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