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Post by Pacelli on Feb 27, 2017 15:47:36 GMT -5
I wanted to draw the attention of the readers of this forum to a recent and current debate going on at Susipe Domino on the sedevacantist subforum. A poster by the name of Nazianzen has been systematically deconstructing TOFP's arguments against sedevacantism, and also demonstrating that authors, Siscoe and Salza, have employed shoddy methods in presenting their quotes, butchering sections of the selected texts to make it agree with their reasoning, and lastly making unsupported assertions of what the Church teaches while pretending that Catholic authorities support them.
In short, Nazianzen has done a great job of showing that these guys are untrustworthy, and their work is useless. It is rare that I support another's writings with no reservations, but I do this with everything Nazianzen has said. He presents his sources in full with no manipulation of the texts, he politely allows the person defending TOFP, "a Catholic Thinker" to present the contrary arguments, and then he debunks those arguments without making it personal.
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Post by Voxxkowalski on Feb 27, 2017 20:40:53 GMT -5
So SD allows sedes again? Whats that admins name again? They are mostly women and such?
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Post by Voxxkowalski on Feb 27, 2017 20:42:58 GMT -5
.BTW... were having a hard time getting folks here...why should we send them to SD of all places!
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Post by Clotilde on Feb 27, 2017 22:07:01 GMT -5
.BTW... were having a hard time getting folks here...why should we send them to SD of all places! I believe one of those reasons is that certain sedes do not chat or interact outside of groups monitored by the clergy of their group of choice.
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Post by Voxxkowalski on Feb 27, 2017 22:49:28 GMT -5
well by all means lets get some monitors
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Post by RitaMarita on Feb 28, 2017 9:36:45 GMT -5
.BTW... were having a hard time getting folks here...why should we send them to SD of all places! I believe one of those reasons is that certain sedes do not chat or interact outside of groups monitored by the clergy of their group of choice. I am ready to chat with anyone and everyone interested in the True Faith!
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Post by Clotilde on Feb 28, 2017 13:03:10 GMT -5
well by all means lets get some monitors Monitor was my polite choice of words. The trad scene is changing. We are increasingly defining ourselves by our positions and the ordained men we have identified as our favorites. They like these favorites, or their representatives to settle all disputes and give a semblance of authority to anything they say or do. Their online discussion groups are a constant appeal to these "authorities" or ideas espoused by such. In short, Catholics are intereacting less and less outside of their own circles.
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Post by Voxxkowalski on Feb 28, 2017 13:06:58 GMT -5
Echo chambers...Ive tried very hard to get the word out...TC is not one
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Post by Pacelli on Feb 28, 2017 13:41:07 GMT -5
.BTW... were having a hard time getting folks here...why should we send them to SD of all places! It's not about sending them to another place, it's about sending them to a man who is brilliantly explaining the current crisis and demolishing specific sophistry. I don't know much about SD, and really don't care about it, but for whatever reason, that forum has attracted to itself a good man and a deep thinker who is demolishing Siscoe and Salza's shoddy work. A quick way of saying it though is this: I lurk at many forums, but this is my home.
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Post by Voxxkowalski on Feb 28, 2017 15:29:39 GMT -5
well i have some ill will tword my treatment at sd...Idont deny it. Invite him here...too
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Post by Voxxkowalski on Feb 28, 2017 15:30:56 GMT -5
When I was punted they were uber R&R.
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Post by RitaMarita on Feb 28, 2017 19:15:09 GMT -5
When I was punted they were uber R&R. I didn't stay there long either... But there were some good people from there, and I know at least a couple of them eventually made it here! So, there is hope still!
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Post by Pacelli on May 16, 2017 15:34:03 GMT -5
I have in my possession the threads that Nazianzen was involved with in his debunking Siscoe and Salza's TOFP. I will be posting them in the resourse section. The Forum that once allowed these threads to be read publicly has now taken them from public view.
The work done by the poster, "Nazianzen" along with Fr. Kramer in debunking S&S's sophistry are top notch, and I do not want any of it to be lost, which is my reason for preserving it.
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Caillin
Approved Cath Resource contributor
Posts: 135
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Post by Caillin on May 16, 2017 21:19:32 GMT -5
I have in my possession the threads that Nazianzen was involved with in his debunking Siscoe and Salza's TOFP. I will be posting them in the resourse section. The Forum that once allowed these threads to be read publicly has now taken them from public view. The work done by the poster, "Nazianzen" along with Fr. Kramer in debunking S&S's sophistry are top notch, and I do not want any of it to be lost, which is my reason for preserving it. I had been following Nazianzen's threads also and was just thinking it would be great if they were copied over to another forum to keep them available to the public, especially for anyone googling TOFP material, as Nazianzen said was the purpose of his efforts. Thank you for doing this.
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Post by Pacelli on May 18, 2017 13:09:40 GMT -5
I have in my possession the threads that Nazianzen was involved with in his debunking Siscoe and Salza's TOFP. I will be posting them in the resourse section. The Forum that once allowed these threads to be read publicly has now taken them from public view. The work done by the poster, "Nazianzen" along with Fr. Kramer in debunking S&S's sophistry are top notch, and I do not want any of it to be lost, which is my reason for preserving it. I had been following Nazianzen's threads also and was just thinking it would be great if they were copied over to another forum to keep them available to the public, especially for anyone googling TOFP material, as Nazianzen said was the purpose of his efforts. Thank you for doing this. You're welcome. Sedevacantism has so many subtopics with contraverted points, that it's impossible for any one of us to deal with all of them as they keep popping up. TOFP seemed to collect all, or at least almost all of them in one book that cleverly spread this disinformation and made it look to the unfamiliar reader like it is a heavily researched and rock solid book. The reality is that the book is a mess, the quotes and footnotes cannot be trusted at face value. The whole giant 700 page mess needs to be decontructed and analyzed point by point, and it is only with this rigor that the falsehoods are then made clear and obvious. For those who have not read Nazianzen's posts, I am putting the relevant threads up on here, I know some are very long, so obviously I know people can't devote time to reading the equivalent of small books every day, but my goal is to preserve the work, with the hope that as theses issues come up again over and over, like a whack a mole, Catholics will have the resources available to deal with these serious theological and historical errors and to pounce them back down with truth. I will also be linking Fr. Kramer's excellent tracts which also expose Siscoe and Salza's book. I would like this forum to be the one stop reference center for those who need information on any of the matter covered in that book. I have all the tracts and threads saved, it's just a matter of getting the links up, which I will keep working on.
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