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Post by EricH on Nov 28, 2016 9:26:49 GMT -5
I notice that the word "scandal" or "scandalized" is being used a lot. I don't understand the meaning of the word "scandal" as it is being used here. I only understand the use of the word "scandal" as it is used in the "worldly" sense. Would you mind explaining the meaning of "scandal" as it is being used here? (Please excuse my ignorance but I had no Catholic education of any kind and very little in the way of Catechesis). I am trying my best to learn as much as I can to make up for lost time and that is why I ask so many questions. There are several meanings for the word "scandal". There's a good explanation in McHugh-Callan's Moral Theology, nn. 1445-1454 ( link). Here's the main info:
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Scandal
Nov 28, 2016 9:51:09 GMT -5
Post by EricH on Nov 28, 2016 9:51:09 GMT -5
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Scandal
Nov 28, 2016 12:09:35 GMT -5
via mobile
Post by Voxxkowalski on Nov 28, 2016 12:09:35 GMT -5
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Deleted
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Scandal
Nov 28, 2016 15:15:35 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Nov 28, 2016 15:15:35 GMT -5
Eric - Thank you so very much for the definition of "scandal". I think I understand the first paragraph. The other paragraphs, I'm having difficulty with after reading them twice. I need to "clear my head" and re-read them again. I get overwhelmed at times as there is so much to learn and I lack knowledge in so many areas. Thanks again!
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Post by Clotilde on Nov 28, 2016 17:39:55 GMT -5
I am sure the OP won't mind me reposting and linking it, if so, I am sure I will hear about it This is a partial text and I cut it down for the sake of the casual reader, but I will post the full text in resources. He goes on to explain more about how to remedy this habit, so it one is curious they might read the rest. I post the first part because I think identifying this in ourselves is the first step, so it is the most important part. Father Frederick Faber, Spiritual Conferences, "On Taking Scandal". To give scandal is a great fault, but to take scandal is a greater fault. It implies a greater amount of wrongness in ourselves, and it does a greater amount of mischief to others. Nothing gives scandal sooner than a quickness to take scandal. This is worth our consideration. For I find great numbers of moderately good people who think it fine to take scandal. They regard it as a sort of evidence of their own goodness, and of their delicacy of conscience; while in reality it is only a proof either of their inordinate conceit or of their extreme stupidity. They are unfortunate when this latter is the case; for then no one but inculpable nature is to blame. If, as some have said, a stupid man cannot be a Saint, at least his stupidity can never make him into a sinner. Moreover, the persons in question seem frequently to feel and act as if their profession of piety involved some kind of official appointment to take scandal. It is their business to take scandal. It is their way of bearing testimony to God. It would show a blamable inertness in the spiritual life if they did not take scandal. They think they suffer very much while they are taking scandal; whereas in truth they enjoy it amazingly. It is a pleasurable excitement, which delightfully varies the monotony of devotion. They do not in reality fall over their neighbour's fault, nor does it in itself hinder them in the way of holiness, nor do they love God less because of it, ---- all which ought to be implied in taking scandal. But they trip themselves up on purpose, and take care that it shall be opposite some fault of their neighbour’s, in order that they may call attention to the difference between him and themselves. There are certainly many legitimate causes for taking scandal, but none more legitimate than the almost boastful facility of taking scandal which characterizes many so-called religious people. The fact is that an immense proportion of us are Pharisees. For one pious man who makes piety attractive, there are nine who make it repulsive. Or, in other words, only one out of ten among reputed spiritual persons is really spiritual. He who during a long life has taken the most scandal has done the most injury to God's glory, and has been himself a real and substantial stumbling-block in the way of many. He has been an endless fountain of odious disedification to the little ones of Christ. If such a one reads this, he will take scandal at me. Everything that he dislikes, every thing which deviates from his own narrow view of things, is to him a scandal. It is the Pharisaic way of expressing a difference. Men marvellously like to be popes; and the dullest of men, if only he has, as usual, an obstinacy proportioned to his dullness, can in most neighbourhoods carve out a tiny papacy for himself; and if to his dullness he can add pomposity, he may reign gloriously, a little local ecumenical council in unintermitting session through all the four seasons of the year. Who has time enough, or heart enough, or hope enough, to try to persuade such men? They are not sufficiently interesting to us to be worth our persuading. Let us leave them alone with their glory and their happiness. Let us try to persuade ourselves. Do not we ourselves take scandal too often?
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Scandal
Nov 28, 2016 17:46:08 GMT -5
Post by Clotilde on Nov 28, 2016 17:46:08 GMT -5
I am having an awful time tonight with this device that I am using to post, but what I wanted to say before in posting the above was that no discussion on Scandal is complete without reviewing the flip side of the coin--Taking Scandal. I think it makes it easier to avoid this becoming a fault and being scandalized altogether.
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Deleted
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Scandal
Nov 28, 2016 18:02:26 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Nov 28, 2016 18:02:26 GMT -5
I notice that the word "scandal" or "scandalized" is being used a lot. I don't understand the meaning of the word "scandal" as it is being used here. I only understand the use of the word "scandal" as it is used in the "worldly" sense. Would you mind explaining the meaning of "scandal" as it is being used here? (Please excuse my ignorance but I had no Catholic education of any kind and very little in the way of Catechesis). I am trying my best to learn as much as I can to make up for lost time and that is why I ask so many questions. There are several meanings for the word "scandal". There's a good explanation in McHugh-Callan's Moral Theology, nn. 1445-1454 ( link). Here's the main info: Eric - I am having difficulty understanding "scandal". Would you be able to give "examples" of "scandal". If I am imposing on your time too much by asking for examples, please let me know. I just want to be sure I properly grasp the definition. Thanks!
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Scandal
Nov 28, 2016 20:25:05 GMT -5
Post by EricH on Nov 28, 2016 20:25:05 GMT -5
There are several meanings for the word "scandal". There's a good explanation in McHugh-Callan's Moral Theology, nn. 1445-1454 ( link). Here's the main info: Eric - I am having difficulty understanding "scandal". Would you be able to give "examples" of "scandal". If I am imposing on your time too much by asking for examples, please let me know. I just want to be sure I properly grasp the definition. Thanks! Just think of it as "bad example" or "leading others into sin". Examples: - Public drunkenness. - Using indecent language in the presence of children. - Asking someone for help in committing an act of theft. - Unmarried persons of the opposite sex being alone together in questionable circumstances. - Breaking the laws of fast or abstinence publicly, when there is no obvious reason for a dispensation. - Unreasonable delay in bringing the last Sacraments to a dying man. - Spending a lot of money on ostentatious frivolities, while neglecting to give alms. - Showing such favoritism to certain members of one's family, or certain of one's subjects, as to incite the others to jealousy. - Sending children to Protestant schools. So, in general, it is scandalous to commit sin in the presence of others. It can also be scandalous to do something that's not a sin, but can be foreseen to tempt others to sin and is not sufficiently urgent or important to make it justified in light of all the circumstances. Hope this helps!
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Deleted
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Scandal
Nov 28, 2016 22:38:35 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Nov 28, 2016 22:38:35 GMT -5
Thanks Eric for the examples. Could a person "scandalize" themselves? If so, could you present an example? Thanks.
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Scandal
Nov 29, 2016 4:58:39 GMT -5
Post by EricH on Nov 29, 2016 4:58:39 GMT -5
Thanks Eric for the examples. Could a person "scandalize" themselves? If so, could you present an example? Thanks. From McHugh-Callan: (e) Scandal is to another. A person may be said to scandalize himself in the sense that by his looks or acts he puts himself in an occasion of sin (Matt., v. 29, 30), or inasmuch as he maliciously makes the acts of a virtuous neighbor an occasion of sin; but scandal is more properly understood of an occasion of sin prepared for one's neighbor.
Here's a passage from St. Francis de Sales' Introduction to the Devout Life with examples of scandal given to one's self, so to speak:
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Deleted
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Scandal
Nov 29, 2016 7:21:26 GMT -5
Post by Deleted on Nov 29, 2016 7:21:26 GMT -5
Thanks Eric for the examples. Could a person "scandalize" themselves? If so, could you present an example? Thanks. From McHugh-Callan: (e) Scandal is to another. A person may be said to scandalize himself in the sense that by his looks or acts he puts himself in an occasion of sin (Matt., v. 29, 30), or inasmuch as he maliciously makes the acts of a virtuous neighbor an occasion of sin; but scandal is more properly understood of an occasion of sin prepared for one's neighbor.
Here's a passage from St. Francis de Sales' Introduction to the Devout Life with examples of scandal given to one's self, so to speak: Eric - Thanks, especially for the passage from St. Francis de Sales!!
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Scandal
Nov 29, 2016 7:51:13 GMT -5
Post by EricH on Nov 29, 2016 7:51:13 GMT -5
From McHugh-Callan: (e) Scandal is to another. A person may be said to scandalize himself in the sense that by his looks or acts he puts himself in an occasion of sin (Matt., v. 29, 30), or inasmuch as he maliciously makes the acts of a virtuous neighbor an occasion of sin; but scandal is more properly understood of an occasion of sin prepared for one's neighbor.
Here's a passage from St. Francis de Sales' Introduction to the Devout Life with examples of scandal given to one's self, so to speak: Eric - Thanks, especially for the passage from St. Francis de Sales!! You're quite welcome
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