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Post by Deleted on Nov 10, 2016 14:18:05 GMT -5
After finally finding my way home to the True Roman Catholic Church 2 yrs ago, the first two Masses I attended was at a Ukranian Catholic Church. I am going to be going there on a permanent basis shortly and have some questions:
1. I went to confession at the Ukranian Church one time and the Priest absolved me in Ukranian. Why would he absolve me in Ukranian and not English? Can I ask him to absolve me in English?
2. It is my understanding that the Eastern Rite churches such as the Ukranian Church did not have their Rite of Ordinations changed as they did in the Roman Rite. Also, I understand that the Eastern Rite churches did not have their Masses changed either. Is my understanding on these issues correct?
3. Did Vatican II affect the Ukranian Churches in any way?
4. I have been told that I would never really be accepted in the Ukranian Church because I am of the Latin Rite. Has anyone had experience in this area with the Eastern Rite Churches?
Any help you can give me is greatly appreciated. Thanks.
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Post by Voxxkowalski on Nov 10, 2016 15:30:26 GMT -5
After finally finding my way home to the True Roman Catholic Church 2 yrs ago, the first two Masses I attended was at a Ukranian Catholic Church. I am going to be going there on a permanent basis shortly and have some questions: 1. I went to confession at the Ukrainian Church one time and the Priest absolved me in Ukranian. Why would he absolve me in Ukranian and not English? Can I ask him to absolve me in English? Many Ukrainian Priests are newer immigrants (which is a plus because the Ukrainian Seminary's are solid Catholic) so their english can be spotty...rest assured that you received a proper sacrament...but I see no problem in asking if he could do it in english.2. It is my understanding that the Eastern Rite churches such as the Ukranian Church did not have their Rite of Ordinations changed as they did in the Roman Rite. Also, I understand that the Eastern Rite churches did not have their Masses changed either. Is my understanding on these issues correct? You are correct3. Did Vatican II affect the Ukranian Churches in any way? Yes...most of it has to do with ecumenism tword the orthoducks but this affected the Byzantine Ruthenians in more negative way than the Ukrainians...the Ukrainians have a very healthy skepticism of the orthoducks and accept a certain cordiality but in no way embrace the schismatic mindset. AFter vat2 Ironically the Divine Liturgy and the Eastern Ruthenians and Ukrainians became more traditional to their heritage...although I find some fault in the way it was implemented by the Bishops over zealousness at removing what were called Latinizations...but in all things necessary to our souls Vat2 made little impact4. I have been told that I would never really be accepted in the Ukranian Church because I am of the Latin Rite. Has anyone had experience in this area with the Eastern Rite Churches? There can be some initial suspicious and maybe even out right bigotry against Roman Catholics in some very ethnic parishes...I do have some personal family experience...BUT in the USA this is becoming less frequent as the ethnic flavor of community s is diminishing....however if you find a Ukrainian parish simply inquire whether they have an english Divine Liturgy...(the more ethnic parishes only have a Ukrainian language Liturgy most have both usually a morning in Ukrainian and the Later Liturgy in English)if so you will probably have little problem...but just be sure you understand that there can be some very stark differences in Traditions and dont try to impose your rites traditions on them. If you come in...pray along...are friendly and make donations Im sure you will be fine. In all things patience humility and Charity...Christ will be with you.
Any help you can give me is greatly appreciated. Thanks.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 10, 2016 17:57:43 GMT -5
After finally finding my way home to the True Roman Catholic Church 2 yrs ago, the first two Masses I attended was at a Ukranian Catholic Church. I am going to be going there on a permanent basis shortly and have some questions: 1. I went to confession at the Ukrainian Church one time and the Priest absolved me in Ukranian. Why would he absolve me in Ukranian and not English? Can I ask him to absolve me in English? Many Ukrainian Priests are newer immigrants (which is a plus because the Ukrainian Seminary's are solid Catholic) so their english can be spotty...rest assured that you received a proper sacrament...but I see no problem in asking if he could do it in english.2. It is my understanding that the Eastern Rite churches such as the Ukranian Church did not have their Rite of Ordinations changed as they did in the Roman Rite. Also, I understand that the Eastern Rite churches did not have their Masses changed either. Is my understanding on these issues correct? You are correct3. Did Vatican II affect the Ukranian Churches in any way? Yes...most of it has to do with ecumenism tword the orthoducks but this affected the Byzantine Ruthenians in more negative way than the Ukrainians...the Ukrainians have a very healthy skepticism of the orthoducks and accept a certain cordiality but in no way embrace the schismatic mindset. AFter vat2 Ironically the Divine Liturgy and the Eastern Ruthenians and Ukrainians became more traditional to their heritage...although I find some fault in the way it was implemented by the Bishops over zealousness at removing what were called Latinizations...but in all things necessary to our souls Vat2 made little impact4. I have been told that I would never really be accepted in the Ukranian Church because I am of the Latin Rite. Has anyone had experience in this area with the Eastern Rite Churches? There can be some initial suspicious and maybe even out right bigotry against Roman Catholics in some very ethnic parishes...I do have some personal family experience...BUT in the USA this is becoming less frequent as the ethnic flavor of community s is diminishing....however if you find a Ukrainian parish simply inquire whether they have an english Divine Liturgy...(the more ethnic parishes only have a Ukrainian language Liturgy most have both usually a morning in Ukrainian and the Later Liturgy in English)if so you will probably have little problem...but just be sure you understand that there can be some very stark differences in Traditions and dont try to impose your rites traditions on them. If you come in...pray along...are friendly and make donations Im sure you will be fine. In all things patience humility and Charity...Christ will be with you.
Any help you can give me is greatly appreciated. Thanks. Thanks much Voxxkowalsi. The Ukranian Church I have been to does have a Liturgy in English. Is it the same as the one in Ukranian? (Guess I'm thinking in terms of Novus Ordo vs. Latin). Also, I noticed they make the sign of the cross differently than in the Latin Rite. Could you explain how the sign of the cross is made in the Eastern Rite? Thanks.
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Post by Voxxkowalski on Nov 10, 2016 22:59:20 GMT -5
When the Priest blesses in the eastern rite the people follow "mirror image" fillowing the motion of the cross. Heres a quote from an orthoduck explaination I like.....and take note of the fingers as well. "Placing the cross on oneself" We place our thumb and first two fingers together in a point, and our last we fingers flat against our palm. The three fingers together represent the Holy Trinity - Father, Son and Holy Spirit, and the two fingers in the palm represent the two natures of Christ. We touch our forehead, then our belly, tracing the vertical part of the cross. From our belly, we bring our hand up to our right shoulder, touching it. We finish placing the cross on ourself by touching our left shoulder. The act of "Placing the cross on oneself" is a request for a blessing from God. We make if from right to left to mirror the actions of the priest when he blesses us. The priest, looking at the parishioners, blesses from left to right. Therefore, the parishioners, putting on the sign of the cross on themselves, do it from right to left."
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Post by Voxxkowalski on Nov 10, 2016 23:02:11 GMT -5
And yes the Divine Liturgy is the same in English....although to be precise the best liturgy would be in old Church Slavonic...but Im on my phone so I cant elaborate right now...remind me later.
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Post by Voxxkowalski on Nov 10, 2016 23:11:22 GMT -5
If your going to attend regularly there are a few things you should do...to fit in better...in the Roman rite it is customary to genuflect the altar by bending a knee before entering the pew....in the East we bow profoundly...which is as it sounds...a full bend at the waist. Also we enter..go all the way to the front center and kiss the Icon on the small table called a tetrapod. Then we go to our pew.
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Post by Voxxkowalski on Nov 10, 2016 23:13:23 GMT -5
The quickest way to point out your a Roman is to bend the knee genuflect.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 11, 2016 8:58:11 GMT -5
And yes the Divine Liturgy is the same in English....although to be precise the best liturgy would be in old Church Slavonic...but Im on my phone so I cant elaborate right now...remind me later. Thanks Voxxkowalski. Could you elaborate on the English Divine Liturgy vs. the Ukranian Divine Liturgy? Also what is the Eastern stance on Ecumenism?
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Post by Voxxkowalski on Nov 11, 2016 9:28:40 GMT -5
And yes the Divine Liturgy is the same in English....although to be precise the best liturgy would be in old Church Slavonic...but Im on my phone so I cant elaborate right now...remind me later. Thanks Voxxkowalski. Could you elaborate on the English Divine Liturgy vs. the Ukranian Divine Liturgy? Also what is the Eastern stance on Ecumenism? There is little to no significant differences between the English and Slavonic/Ukrainian DL. The official stance on ecumenism since the Eastern Catholics are "with Rome and the Pope" is the same liberal claptrap...however in its practical applications by the Priests there is little about it at the parish level. Understand....the East has many liberal problems as well...BUT in the realm of Sacramental life and the Mass they are solid. I dont involve my self beyond that. God will need to sort it out...but to save my soul I confess...Pray...receive Communion...serve Liturgy...etc.They have valid holy orders even bishops... There is still a crisis and it is deep...but again...not the laity's responsibility.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 11, 2016 15:20:42 GMT -5
Thanks Voxxkowalski. Could you elaborate on the English Divine Liturgy vs. the Ukranian Divine Liturgy? Also what is the Eastern stance on Ecumenism? There is little to no significant differences between the English and Slavonic/Ukrainian DL. The official stance on ecumenism since the Eastern Catholics are "with Rome and the Pope" is the same liberal claptrap...however in its practical applications by the Priests there is little about it at the parish level. Understand....the East has many liberal problems as well...BUT in the realm of Sacramental life and the Mass they are solid. I dont involve my self beyond that. God will need to sort it out...but to save my soul I confess...Pray...receive Communion...serve Liturgy...etc.They have valid holy orders even bishops... There is still a crisis and it is deep...but again...not the laity's responsibility.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 11, 2016 15:27:20 GMT -5
There is little to no significant differences between the English and Slavonic/Ukrainian DL. The official stance since the Eastern Catholics are "with Rome and the Pope" is the same liberal claptrap...however in its practical applications by the Priests there is little about it at the parish level. Understand....the East has many liberal problems as well...BUT in the relm of Sacramental life and the Mass they are solid. I dont involve my self beyond that. God will need to sort it out...but to save my soul I confess...Pray...recieve Communion...serve Liturgy...etc.The have valid holy orders even bishops... There is still a crisis and it is deep...but again...not the laitys responsability. You stated my sentiments on the Sacraments, Mass and the Eastern Rite Orders, exactly. Thanks again for all your help!!!
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Post by Deleted on Nov 11, 2016 18:02:30 GMT -5
When the Priest blesses in the eastern rite the people follow "mirror image" fillowing the motion of the cross. Heres a quote from an orthoduck explaination I like.....and take note of the fingers as well. "Placing the cross on oneself" We place our thumb and first two fingers together in a point, and our last we fingers flat against our palm. The three fingers together represent the Holy Trinity - Father, Son and Holy Spirit, and the two fingers in the palm represent the two natures of Christ. We touch our forehead, then our belly, tracing the vertical part of the cross. From our belly, we bring our hand up to our right shoulder, touching it. We finish placing the cross on ourself by touching our left shoulder. The act of "Placing the cross on oneself" is a request for a blessing from God. We make if from right to left to mirror the actions of the priest when he blesses us. The priest, looking at the parishioners, blesses from left to right. Therefore, the parishioners, putting on the sign of the cross on themselves, do it from right to left." Having great difficulty doing the Eastern sign of the cross. Automatically keep wanting to do the Roman cross. It is going to take lots and lots of practice!!
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Post by Voxxkowalski on Nov 11, 2016 18:02:54 GMT -5
BTW after your tenth post you are no longer a Guest but a family member as such I would encourage you to upload your own avatar...if you need any help let me know
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Post by Voxxkowalski on Nov 11, 2016 18:04:06 GMT -5
When the Priest blesses in the eastern rite the people follow "mirror image" fillowing the motion of the cross. Heres a quote from an orthoduck explaination I like.....and take note of the fingers as well. "Placing the cross on oneself" We place our thumb and first two fingers together in a point, and our last we fingers flat against our palm. The three fingers together represent the Holy Trinity - Father, Son and Holy Spirit, and the two fingers in the palm represent the two natures of Christ. We touch our forehead, then our belly, tracing the vertical part of the cross. From our belly, we bring our hand up to our right shoulder, touching it. We finish placing the cross on ourself by touching our left shoulder. The act of "Placing the cross on oneself" is a request for a blessing from God. We make if from right to left to mirror the actions of the priest when he blesses us. The priest, looking at the parishioners, blesses from left to right. Therefore, the parishioners, putting on the sign of the cross on themselves, do it from right to left." Having great difficulty doing the Eastern sign of the cross. Automatically keep wanting to do the Roman cross. It is going to take lots and lots of practice!! I wouldnt worry about that for now.... Any body who would find offense is probably a **ithead anyway.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 12, 2016 5:49:32 GMT -5
I have another question regarding the Ukranian Catholic Church. I have been looking over the Church's bulletins and I cannot find anything about confession or confession times. I went to confession there once at Lent. Is Lent the only time they have confessions, or are confessions by appointment?
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