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Post by Pacelli on Mar 10, 2017 15:25:58 GMT -5
Regarding the above Una Cum issue and the CMRI, 2 yrs ago when I finally found my way to the Faith, I spoke over the phone with a young CMRI Priest several times. When I told him I was considering attending a Latin Mass with a pre-Vatican II Priest in the Diocese, he said that was "a no no" due to the Una Cum. He also laughed and "made fun" of the 89 yr old Priest offering the Mass. This CMRI Priest was a total turn off to the CMRI. It appears from what you are saying that the priest is deviating from the policy of CMRI, which I quoted above. I could see if he had other problems with going to a diocesan mass, such as making sure the priest is validly ordained or that the Communion hosts were valid, etc., but the una cum matter is in and of itself a non-sequitor, as even Bp. Pivarunas and the priests of the CMRI stated.
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Post by Voxxkowalski on Jun 7, 2017 5:32:56 GMT -5
I decided to bring some of my refutations against the NUCs over here from TD since certain mods confuse milqtoast with being "moderate" the following is a response to mystery fidems assertion that the number of available NUC (non una cum) is irrelevant. no it is not irreleveant...A) Not all sede Chapels are non una cum B) The number is infact around 100....100 "good" non una cum Masses! For the millions upon millions of Faithful...GMAB! This is CULT thinking...no better than the Jahova Winesses. To believe the non unacum position is to assert the practical defection of the Church from the world. MY ANSWERS IN REDwww.ecclesia.luxvera.org/Directory-World.html this link seems to assert about 500 total Masses world wide. Pacelli is not so sure tradcath.proboards.com/thread/743/latest-sedevacantist-bishop-priests-statistics The "good" comment is snark to indicate Non Una Cum* as seen by its proponents (henceforth *NUC) It is if you haven't proven and established with surety and Church adjudication the assertion the Masses are in fact "offered in union with a heretic and apostate" And you haven't... nor has FR Cekada et al. All of the above doesn't imagine the sedevacantist issue at all...it merely points out that Valid Popes must be named if the particular eastern rite is to be considered a Uniate rite. This is a classic case of confirmation bias on your part. You can't reverse engineer it to mean that all Popes thus named will be valid or true...the western confusion over three Popes shows this.This part frosts me the most...it is so disingenuous and duplicitous that it makes my head spin. You NUC-s scream the issue is black and white... for paragraphs and thread after thread and then you try to say you are in a gray zone. Either stand for your Position or dont...there is no middle ground!
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Post by Voxxkowalski on Jun 7, 2017 5:37:20 GMT -5
that last part is a constant feature of the NUCs...its kind of like the R&R yoga positions...they want their opinion to be authoritative but they dont want to acknowledge the ramifications.
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Post by Clotilde on Jun 7, 2017 6:59:38 GMT -5
that last part is a constant feature of the NUCs...its kind of like the R&R yoga positions...they want their opinion to be authoritative but they dont want to acknowledge the ramifications. Some do. There are some that say it is better never to attend mass or that there is an obligation to relocate/travel. You can still watch their internet channel and still send donations for everyone else! Some people honestly believe that either the restoration will come through these groups and their expansion, or that these groups will continue to expand and eventually have masses everywhere. They are dreaming. The number of suitable masses diminishes as this crisis goes on. Those of us who are looking at this from a different perspective know that our time is running out. Traditionalism is built on shifting sands, some people realize this, others not so much.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 25, 2017 9:45:57 GMT -5
Wow, all you guys are not exactly friendly with the una-cum people!
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Post by Pacelli on Jul 25, 2017 10:47:52 GMT -5
Wow, all you guys are not exactly friendly with the una-cum people! Do you mean the non-una cum people? The dogmatic non-una cum people are the aggressors not us.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 25, 2017 10:58:32 GMT -5
Wow, all you guys are not exactly friendly with the una-cum people! Do you mean the non-una cum people? The dogmatic non-una cum people are the aggressors not us. Yes -- I meant the 'non una-cum' people, thanks for the correction! I'm too tired to proofread my own work today~ even typing a single sentence.. ?
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Post by Pacelli on Jul 25, 2017 11:13:47 GMT -5
Do you mean the non-una cum people? The dogmatic non-una cum people are the aggressors not us. Yes -- I meant the 'non una-cum' people, thanks for the correction! I'm too tired to proofread my own work today~ even typing a single sentence.. ? If a non-una-cum Catholic just says, " I don't want to go to mass that uses the name of the antipope, but I am making no judgment about such masses or the people who go to them," then no problem. I respect that position, even while I disagree with it. The problem starts when they (Dogmatic non-una cum people) say that such masses are "objectively schismatic," and it is a mortal sin to go to them.
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Post by Voxxkowalski on Jul 25, 2017 11:18:40 GMT -5
How to be friendly with unauthorized prelates and non authoratative laypeople scandelizing and binding the consciences of fellow trads who are doing the best they can to keep the faith in this unprecedented crisis. Using the protestant like justifications of personal interpretation of Catholic Theology. They caused the fall of TD btw.IMHO
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Post by micah1199 on Jul 25, 2017 12:24:01 GMT -5
that last part is a constant feature of the NUCs...its kind of like the R&R yoga positions...they want their opinion to be authoritative but they dont want to acknowledge the ramifications. Some do. There are some that say it is better never to attend mass or that there is an obligation to relocate/travel. You can still watch their internet channel and still send donations for everyone else! Some people honestly believe that either the restoration will come through these groups and their expansion, or that these groups will continue to expand and eventually have masses everywhere. They are dreaming. The number of suitable masses diminishes as this crisis goes on. Those of us who are looking at this from a different perspective know that our time is running out. Traditionalism is built on shifting sands, some people realize this, others not so much. Dear Clotilde, The above bothers me because it appears to lack faith in God's providence. I am not sure that you mean it that way. God has allowed the things that we are suffering and will see the faithful through it.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 25, 2017 14:26:32 GMT -5
How to be friendly with unauthorized prelates and non authoratative laypeople scandelizing and binding the consciences of fellow trads who are doing the best they can to keep the faith in this unprecedented crisis. Using the protestant like justifications of personal interpretation of Catholic Theology. They caused the fall of TD btw.IMHO I wasn't aware that 'non una-cum' folks caused the fall of the TeDeum forum ; I hadn't been visiting it lately.
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Post by Clotilde on Jul 25, 2017 14:41:30 GMT -5
Some do. There are some that say it is better never to attend mass or that there is an obligation to relocate/travel. You can still watch their internet channel and still send donations for everyone else! Some people honestly believe that either the restoration will come through these groups and their expansion, or that these groups will continue to expand and eventually have masses everywhere. They are dreaming. The number of suitable masses diminishes as this crisis goes on. Those of us who are looking at this from a different perspective know that our time is running out. Traditionalism is built on shifting sands, some people realize this, others not so much. Dear Clotilde, The above bothers me because it appears to lack faith in God's providence. I am not sure that you mean it that way. God has allowed the things that we are suffering and will see the faithful through it. I have complete confidence that God is in control and not that it any of your business, but I see His Providence in my own life, the situation in the Church, and believe that He will resolve the Crisis. I do not think traditionalism is the Church, but a temporary band-aid during a time of confusion. There is no mistake that as time goes on, traditionalists stretch the limits of the law and cross over into the realm of making stuff up. We walk a dangerous line and the path is wrought with peril. I'm honest about it.
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Post by Clotilde on Jul 25, 2017 14:44:26 GMT -5
Yes -- I meant the 'non una-cum' people, thanks for the correction! I'm too tired to proofread my own work today~ even typing a single sentence.. ? If a non-una-cum Catholic just says, " I don't want to go to mass that uses the name of the antipope, but I am making no judgment about such masses or the people who go to them," then no problem. I respect that position, even while I disagree with it. The problem starts when they (Dogmatic non-una cum people) say that such masses are "objectively schismatic," and it is a mortal sin to go to them. *Undeclared anti-pope~ which means it doesn't bind the consciences of others. There is a problem when people invent new things, most notably words and sins.
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Post by Voxxkowalski on Jul 25, 2017 15:01:03 GMT -5
How to be friendly with unauthorized prelates and non authoratative laypeople scandelizing and binding the consciences of fellow trads who are doing the best they can to keep the faith in this unprecedented crisis. Using the protestant like justifications of personal interpretation of Catholic Theology. They caused the fall of TD btw.IMHO I wasn't aware that 'non una-cum' folks caused the fall of the TeDeum forum ; I hadn't been visiting it lately. The dogmatic NUCs were getting free rides by mods (not admin) a few of us here endevoured to passionately confront their position...utterly biased banns ensued...I deleted my account as a response(after a 24 hour opportunity for the NUC mod to reinstate and apologise...which he didnt) admin decided the drama wasnt worth it...TD closed. Thats my take ( for what its worth)The rational sede position is just as a possible or highly likely diagnosis...not a cure. The sede position CERTAINLY isnt a NEW CATHOLIC RITE. NUCs use the term sede as a noun.
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Post by micah1199 on Jul 25, 2017 19:41:43 GMT -5
Dear Clotilde, The above bothers me because it appears to lack faith in God's providence. I am not sure that you mean it that way. God has allowed the things that we are suffering and will see the faithful through it. I have complete confidence that God is in control and not that it any of your business, but I see His Providence in my own life, the situation in the Church, and believe that He will resolve the Crisis. I do not think traditionalism is the Church, but a temporary band-aid during a time of confusion. There is no mistake that as time goes on, traditionalists stretch the limits of the law and cross over into the realm of making stuff up. We walk a dangerous line and the path is wrought with peril. I'm honest about it.
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