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Post by marcellusfaber on Mar 16, 2023 12:11:40 GMT -5
For the past six years (with one exception due to the dreaded plague) I have attended Holy Week services according to the pre-'55 rites. This was because my old Indult chapel in London pretends that it is 1939 (in order to avoid the changes beginning with the introduction of the Bea psalter into some propers), but recently I stopped going to this chapel for various reasons. However, though I realise that the arguments in favour of using the pre-'55 (such as Fr Cekada's) seem somewhat weak, the pre-'55 is undoubtedly better and I find the idea of going back to the new Holy Week services rather distasteful. There are a couple of places in Britain that will be having the old rites, but I'm afraid they have to be discounted.
For this reason I am considering going to a chapel on the continent. Fr Roger's chapel in Rennes and Fr Belmont's chapel in Bordeaux have been recommended, as has Fr Abrahamowicz in Italy, though I only know for certain that the pre-'55 will be in Rennes. Due to reasons of transportation, I have also been considering the IMBC in Paris and in Dendermonde in Belgium (which I think is +Stuyver's main chapel). It would undoubtedly be much easier to go to Belgium. However, all these chapels have it in common that they are non-una-cum, a position which I do not hold. I have also thought before that +Sanborn is on the edge of schism with his dogmatic adherence to the NUC position, and this would also apply to the IMBC considering what Fr Trauner said to a friend of mine once. However, it seems to me that it would be alright to go to their Holy Week services, being discreet, since, just like any other traditional group which holds a suspect position, they have not been condemned by authority and their pertinacity is by no means a settled question.
I would be grateful for comments and suggestions.
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Post by RitaMarita on Mar 16, 2023 13:33:24 GMT -5
For the past six years (with one exception due to the dreaded plague) I have attended Holy Week services according to the pre-'55 rites. This was because my old Indult chapel in London pretends that it is 1939 (in order to avoid the changes beginning with the introduction of the Bea psalter into some propers), but recently I stopped going to this chapel for various reasons. However, though I realise that the arguments in favour of using the pre-'55 (such as Fr Cekada's) seem somewhat weak, the pre-'55 is undoubtedly better and I find the idea of going back to the new Holy Week services rather distasteful. There are a couple of places in Britain that will be having the old rites, but I'm afraid they have to be discounted. For this reason I am considering going to a chapel on the continent. Fr Roger's chapel in Rennes and Fr Belmont's chapel in Bordeaux have been recommended, as has Fr Abrahamowicz in Italy, though I only know for certain that the pre-'55 will be in Rennes. Due to reasons of transportation, I have also been considering the IMBC in Paris and in Dendermonde in Belgium (which I think is +Stuyver's main chapel). It would undoubtedly be much easier to go to Belgium. However, all these chapels have it in common that they are non-una-cum, a position which I do not hold. I have also thought before that +Sanborn is on the edge of schism with his dogmatic adherence to the NUC position, and this would also apply to the IMBC considering what Fr Trauner said to a friend of mine once. However, it seems to me that it would be alright to go to their Holy Week services, being discreet, since, just like any other traditional group which holds a suspect position, they have not been condemned by authority and their pertinacity is by no means a settled question. I would be grateful for comments and suggestions. I also prefer the pre-1955 Holy Week. My old confessor, Father Joseph Collins celebrated it as does our current priest, Father Ringrose. I would recommend going to the Belgium chapel since you say that it is closer and easier to get to. There is no need to make things harder for yourself. 😅 Just as the "dogmatic NUC" position might not be ideal, so almost every traditional Catholic group seems to one or another weird idea or custom. Until we have a future true and good Pope to guide us and fix everything, we must just do the best we can. We must be careful and prudent but not to the point of avoiding legitimate Sacraments.
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Post by Pacelli on Mar 16, 2023 13:57:53 GMT -5
As Rita pointed out there are good priests that use, or have used during their lifetime, the pre-1955 laws, but for myself, I have not and will not go to Holy Week rites that use the former law, and leave it at that. My reasoning can all be seen on the recent threads on this topic.
My advice would be to go to the SSPX in England, or if you are traveling, find a SSPX chapel, but that's how I see it. If you wish to go to the other chapels you mentioned, it's your choice, but I cannot offer advice on that.
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Post by Didymus on Mar 16, 2023 18:46:47 GMT -5
For the past six years (with one exception due to the dreaded plague) I have attended Holy Week services according to the pre-'55 rites. This was because my old Indult chapel in London pretends that it is 1939 (in order to avoid the changes beginning with the introduction of the Bea psalter into some propers), but recently I stopped going to this chapel for various reasons. However, though I realise that the arguments in favour of using the pre-'55 (such as Fr Cekada's) seem somewhat weak, the pre-'55 is undoubtedly better and I find the idea of going back to the new Holy Week services rather distasteful. There are a couple of places in Britain that will be having the old rites, but I'm afraid they have to be discounted. For this reason I am considering going to a chapel on the continent. Fr Roger's chapel in Rennes and Fr Belmont's chapel in Bordeaux have been recommended, as has Fr Abrahamowicz in Italy, though I only know for certain that the pre-'55 will be in Rennes. Due to reasons of transportation, I have also been considering the IMBC in Paris and in Dendermonde in Belgium (which I think is +Stuyver's main chapel). It would undoubtedly be much easier to go to Belgium. However, all these chapels have it in common that they are non-una-cum, a position which I do not hold. I have also thought before that +Sanborn is on the edge of schism with his dogmatic adherence to the NUC position, and this would also apply to the IMBC considering what Fr Trauner said to a friend of mine once. However, it seems to me that it would be alright to go to their Holy Week services, being discreet, since, just like any other traditional group which holds a suspect position, they have not been condemned by authority and their pertinacity is by no means a settled question. I would be grateful for comments and suggestions. I have a chance to go to Belgium in the near future, I am in the same dilemma as you, I do not share the idea of NUC either and I am a supporter of the laws of Pius XII at least until a Pope fixes all this, if you decide to go to Belgium , and I also decide to go to Dendermonde, I will try to contact you, since in some way we would be 2 people attending the chapel of Bp Stuyver without falling into his mistakes, it would help us to stand firm against those mistakes, although personally I am finding out if I can find an SSPX chapel, but I'm not sure if there is one in Dendermonde Belgium.
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Post by Didymus on Mar 28, 2023 20:35:42 GMT -5
A few days ago I wrote to the FSSPX in Belgium to find out if they have a chapel or mass center in Dendermonde, I was surprised with the response they gave me.
Normally I would expect members of the FSSPX to be against sedevacantist groups of priests.
However, the person from the FSSPX told me that there were no FSSPX Mass centers in Dendermonde, and he recommended Bishop Stuyver's IMBC, they are sedeprivationists.
It aroused my interest since it is the first time (for me) that the FSSPX has recommended a headquarters group to me.
The closest thing to Dendermonde of the FSSPX is 30 minutes away I think. Tell me if you know any important information, I intend to go to Dendermonde-Belgium perhaps in the near future.
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Post by marcellusfaber on Mar 29, 2023 12:13:47 GMT -5
I'm going to have to try to get an emergency passport; I've been procrastinating. If I can, then I will go to Dendermonde for Holy Week. It's interesting what you say about the SSPX there.
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Post by RitaMarita on Apr 3, 2023 17:35:42 GMT -5
A few days ago I wrote to the FSSPX in Belgium to find out if they have a chapel or mass center in Dendermonde, I was surprised with the response they gave me. Normally I would expect members of the FSSPX to be against sedevacantist groups of priests. However, the person from the FSSPX told me that there were no FSSPX Mass centers in Dendermonde, and he recommended Bishop Stuyver's IMBC, they are sedeprivationists. It aroused my interest since it is the first time (for me) that the FSSPX has recommended a headquarters group to me. The closest thing to Dendermonde of the FSSPX is 30 minutes away I think. Tell me if you know any important information, I intend to go to Dendermonde-Belgium perhaps in the near future. How interesting that the FSSPX priest there recommended the sedeprivationists. Maybe he is a more solid FSSPX priest who has sympathies for sedevacantism.
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Post by Didymus on Apr 3, 2023 22:13:33 GMT -5
A few days ago I wrote to the FSSPX in Belgium to find out if they have a chapel or mass center in Dendermonde, I was surprised with the response they gave me. Normally I would expect members of the FSSPX to be against sedevacantist groups of priests. However, the person from the FSSPX told me that there were no FSSPX Mass centers in Dendermonde, and he recommended Bishop Stuyver's IMBC, they are sedeprivationists. It aroused my interest since it is the first time (for me) that the FSSPX has recommended a headquarters group to me. The closest thing to Dendermonde of the FSSPX is 30 minutes away I think. Tell me if you know any important information, I intend to go to Dendermonde-Belgium perhaps in the near future. How interesting that the FSSPX priest there recommended the sedeprivationists. Maybe he is a more solid FSSPX priest who has sympathies for sedevacantism. It was not a priest, I think it is a woman or a secretary of something like that of the FSSPX, however it is the official mail of the FSSPX of Belgium, so even so it is striking since I suppose that the priests also find out about these things
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Post by marcellusfaber on Apr 4, 2023 7:50:05 GMT -5
I have not managed to get a passport unfortunately, so I won't be able to join you, Thommie, I'm afraid. I've realised now that an 'Indult' priest whom I know who does the pre-'55 may have been ordained by a bishop consecrated just before the new rite was brought in in 1968 (though in the late 1980s or early 1990s). I am in the process of checking the details of his ordination and may go to his Church since I can't bear the reformed Holy Week services. It also occurred to me that his appointment as parish priest could have been confirmed through supplied jurisdiction arising from common error as to the identity of the diocesan bishop. This would make his faculties/deputation/jurisdiction absolutely rock solid and safe (especially for marriages).
However, it does bother me that he says the new Mass, as does the concept of the 'Indult' in general. He spent six years at Econe, I believe, before being thrown out or leaving depending on whom one talks to. I don't know how he could not know better not to say the new Mass.
Does anyone have any thoughts?
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Post by RitaMarita on Apr 4, 2023 16:20:39 GMT -5
How interesting that the FSSPX priest there recommended the sedeprivationists. Maybe he is a more solid FSSPX priest who has sympathies for sedevacantism. It was not a priest, I think it is a woman or a secretary of something like that of the FSSPX, however it is the official mail of the FSSPX of Belgium, so even so it is striking since I suppose that the priests also find out about these things Oh! I understand now! Either way... Still interesting. 😇
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Post by RitaMarita on Apr 4, 2023 16:28:18 GMT -5
I have not managed to get a passport unfortunately, so I won't be able to join you, Thommie, I'm afraid. I've realised now that an 'Indult' priest whom I know who does the pre-'55 may have been ordained by a bishop consecrated just before the new rite was brought in in 1968 (though in the late 1980s or early 1990s). I am in the process of checking the details of his ordination and may go to his Church since I can't bear the reformed Holy Week services. It also occurred to me that his appointment as parish priest could have been confirmed through supplied jurisdiction arising from common error as to the identity of the diocesan bishop. This would make his faculties/deputation/jurisdiction absolutely rock solid and safe (especially for marriages). However, it does bother me that he says the new Mass, as does the concept of the 'Indult' in general. He spent six years at Econe, I believe, before being thrown out or leaving depending on whom one talks to. I don't know how he could not know better not to say the new Mass. Does anyone have any thoughts? How interesting! Good searching! It would be nice to hear the final results. My biggest concerns would be: 1. Whether he is a validly ordained priest. 2. His Mass doesn't take place in a novus ordo chapel where you might get a "invalid" host instead of a valid one even though attending a Latin Mass. That being said... I can definitely relate about the Old vs. New Holy Week. Hope all goes well! 🙏😇
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