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Post by Voxxkowalski on Dec 6, 2022 8:42:19 GMT -5
That makes sense... But it is so sad... It isn't like their beliefs are that different... 😥 If anyone knowingly abandons even one point of the Catholic Faith it doesn't matter how similar their beliefs might be, they are miles apart in the supernatural order. Abandons a "point"? vague...define what a Point is in this assertion.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 6, 2022 11:08:23 GMT -5
If anyone knowingly abandons even one point of the Catholic Faith it doesn't matter how similar their beliefs might be, they are miles apart in the supernatural order. Abandons a "point"? vague...define what a Point is in this assertion. Apologies point should read de fide dogma.
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Post by Voxxkowalski on Dec 6, 2022 11:57:09 GMT -5
Abandons a "point"? vague...define what a Point is in this assertion. Apologies point should read de fide dogma. So in your assertion your saying there are dogmatic differences amongst these groups?
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Post by Deleted on Dec 6, 2022 12:19:50 GMT -5
Apologies point should read de fide dogma. So in your assertion your saying there are dogmatic differences amongst these groups? I'm referring to the recent threads on Apostolic Succession. There are dogmatic differences between these groups and between them and the Catholic Church.
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Post by RitaMarita on Dec 6, 2022 13:45:48 GMT -5
Apologies point should read de fide dogma. So in your assertion your saying there are dogmatic differences amongst these groups? This was the question I was going to ask but saw that you already did it for me. 😅
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Post by Voxxkowalski on Dec 6, 2022 21:06:55 GMT -5
So in your assertion your saying there are dogmatic differences amongst these groups? I'm referring to the recent threads on Apostolic Succession. There are dogmatic differences between these groups and between them and the Catholic Church. These are not formal but material differences
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Post by RitaMarita on Dec 7, 2022 7:21:07 GMT -5
I'm referring to the recent threads on Apostolic Succession. There are dogmatic differences between these groups and between them and the Catholic Church. These are not formal but material differences This was my impression as well... Until the Church decides the matter as final, such differences can and should be tolerated to a certain degree. 🙏😇
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Post by Pacelli on Dec 7, 2022 11:40:07 GMT -5
It's very possible that those denying some Catholic teachings on the Apostolic Succession are not guilty, and are mistaken, and that has been my hope and is my hope.
The duty of Catholics laity is to keep the Faith, profess the Faith when necessary, warn others if a wolf (or anyone else who is either knowingly or not knowingly spreading unorthodox teachings) is detected among the flock, and report the matter of unorthodoxy to the lawful Shepherd. Unfortunately, we cannot at present accomplish the last duty, so we are stuck with this problem.
So, there is no need to get into the material and formal distinction, as to whether those holding this are guilty or not. I hope not and I am not making any judgment as to their guilt. That task is not for any of us, it is for the hierarchy who are the authorized judges who can make authoritative and binding judgments of guilt if the persons in question are guilty, and apply censures if necessary.
My goal on this matter has been to present the truth of the Faith, with the fully referenced Catholic sources, that's all. There are numerous Catholic sources posted on here, fully referenced, and these works can easily be found in libraries or scanned online, so anyone wanting the truth can find it. The goal has been to educate and warn Catholics to not follow and learn unorthodox ideas that conflict with the Faith. I am not going beyond that to determine if anyone is a formal heretic.
It's an interesting thing that many in the SSPX for a very long time have feared sedevacantism because they believe it leads to heresy, specifically the denial of the apostolic succession. It seems that their concerns are not unfounded, at least among some sedevacantists. The positions being espoused by some since at least 2012 will only confirm them in their fears and keep them from looking at a position that they think leads to heresy.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 8, 2022 14:28:50 GMT -5
It's very possible that those denying some Catholic teachings on the Apostolic Succession are not guilty, and are mistaken, and that has been my hope and is my hope. The duty of Catholics laity is to keep the Faith, profess the Faith when necessary, warn others if a wolf (or anyone else who is either knowingly or not knowingly spreading unorthodox teachings) is detected among the flock, and report the matter of unorthodoxy to the lawful Shepherd. Unfortunately, we cannot at present accomplish the last duty, so we are stuck with this problem. So, there is no need to get into the material and formal distinction, as to whether those holding this are guilty or not. I hope not and I am not making any judgment as to their guilt. That task is not for any of us, it is for the hierarchy who are the authorized judges who can make authoritative and binding judgments of guilt if the persons in question are guilty, and apply censures if necessary. My goal on this matter has been to present the truth of the Faith, with the fully referenced Catholic sources, that's all. There are numerous Catholic sources posted on here, fully referenced, and these works can easily be found in libraries or scanned online, so anyone wanting the truth can find it. The goal has been to educate and warn Catholics to not follow and learn unorthodox ideas that conflict with the Faith. I am not going beyond that to determine if anyone is a formal heretic. It's an interesting thing that many in the SSPX for a very long time have feared sedevacantism because they believe it leads to heresy, specifically the denial of the apostolic succession. It seems that their concerns are not unfounded, at least among some sedevacantists. The positions being espoused by some since at least 2012 will only confirm them in their fears and keep them from looking at a position that they think leads to heresy. I think it the threads on these topics could be prefaced with this it would be helpful.
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Post by Pacelli on Dec 8, 2022 15:30:14 GMT -5
It's very possible that those denying some Catholic teachings on the Apostolic Succession are not guilty, and are mistaken, and that has been my hope and is my hope. The duty of Catholics laity is to keep the Faith, profess the Faith when necessary, warn others if a wolf (or anyone else who is either knowingly or not knowingly spreading unorthodox teachings) is detected among the flock, and report the matter of unorthodoxy to the lawful Shepherd. Unfortunately, we cannot at present accomplish the last duty, so we are stuck with this problem. So, there is no need to get into the material and formal distinction, as to whether those holding this are guilty or not. I hope not and I am not making any judgment as to their guilt. That task is not for any of us, it is for the hierarchy who are the authorized judges who can make authoritative and binding judgments of guilt if the persons in question are guilty, and apply censures if necessary. My goal on this matter has been to present the truth of the Faith, with the fully referenced Catholic sources, that's all. There are numerous Catholic sources posted on here, fully referenced, and these works can easily be found in libraries or scanned online, so anyone wanting the truth can find it. The goal has been to educate and warn Catholics to not follow and learn unorthodox ideas that conflict with the Faith. I am not going beyond that to determine if anyone is a formal heretic. It's an interesting thing that many in the SSPX for a very long time have feared sedevacantism because they believe it leads to heresy, specifically the denial of the apostolic succession. It seems that their concerns are not unfounded, at least among some sedevacantists. The positions being espoused by some since at least 2012 will only confirm them in their fears and keep them from looking at a position that they think leads to heresy. I think it the threads on these topics could be prefaced with this it would be helpful. There is really no way to do that in this format. I will post it in those threads though to make these matters clear.
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Post by Voxxkowalski on Dec 8, 2022 22:28:33 GMT -5
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