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Post by Marya Dabrowski on Feb 2, 2021 13:54:08 GMT -5
Hello, Can anyone direct me to resources for 1) changes to the sacraments at Vatican 2 2)heresies of Vatican 2 documents 3)why episcopal consecration new rite is invalid (I have this...http://www.traditionalmass.org/images/articles/NewEpConsArtPDF2.pdf ) Mainly it's been so long I don't have the time and energy to look right now. I would prefer nothing from MHFM Thanks, Marya
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Post by Voxxkowalski on Feb 3, 2021 19:25:22 GMT -5
couldn't you just look at Fr Cekadas (rip)work of human hands?
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Post by Marya Dabrowski on Feb 3, 2021 22:13:11 GMT -5
couldn't you just look at Fr Cekadas (rip)work of human hands? Isn't that just about the Mass?
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Post by Voxxkowalski on Feb 4, 2021 23:50:01 GMT -5
couldn't you just look at Fr Cekadas (rip)work of human hands? Isn't that just about the Mass? Yes but it show changes to the sacraments
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Post by Pacelli on Feb 5, 2021 13:01:25 GMT -5
Hello, Can anyone direct me to resources for 1) changes to the sacraments at Vatican 2 2)heresies of Vatican 2 documents 3)why episcopal consecration new rite is invalid (I have this...http://www.traditionalmass.org/images/articles/NewEpConsArtPDF2.pdf ) Mainly it's been so long I don't have the time and energy to look right now. I would prefer nothing from MHFM Thanks, Marya Hi Marya, Everything you are looking for should be in the resource forum. The doubtfulness of the Conciliar holy orders is something I have been convinced of for a long time. I hesitate to say, "invalid," in regards to their orders, only because the Church has yet to settle it, but personally I would be shocked if a future Pope ruled in favor of the validity of the Paul VI rites. Anyway, to answer your questions: 1. Vatican II made no direct changes to the sacramental rites, including orders. All of the new rites came later. 2. You can find a good summary of the principle doctrinal problems with Vatican II HERE Note: I am hesitant to say "heretical," on these because the modernists used ambiguity to keep the faithful bishops on board, so the proper way of talking about Vatican II is labeling it "heterodox" in my opinion. John Daly, who wrote the article many years ago is revising it, so perhaps that will be more clear in his revisions. The Catholic Church does not teach with heterodoxy, so the ambiguity does not get them off the hook, it only acts as evidence for their crimes against the Faith, using deception rather than direct heresy, to lead the flock astray. Anyway, we have tremendous evidence since Vatican II that now makes the true meaning of Vatican II crystal clear in seeing the proper interpretation of Vatican II as heretical. The V2 "Popes" have taught over and over again showing that the new doctrine of Vatican II is certainly and directly at odds with Catholic teaching. 3. The new episcopal consecration rite and sacerdotal ordination rites as approved by Paul VI are both seriously problematic and in my opinion are both at a minimum doubtful, and are probably invalid. I have posted many articles on this, in the Church Crisis Resource section, on this forum located HERE but for starters, the one you have from Fr. Cekada explains the matter very well. I intend on adding his study in the that subforum forum as well. Fr. Cekada did very good work on this topic. I would also urge you to read Dr. Coomaraswamy's excellent study on it found HERE
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Post by Marya Dabrowski on Feb 6, 2021 21:44:44 GMT -5
Hello, Can anyone direct me to resources for 1) changes to the sacraments at Vatican 2 2)heresies of Vatican 2 documents 3)why episcopal consecration new rite is invalid (I have this...http://www.traditionalmass.org/images/articles/NewEpConsArtPDF2.pdf ) Mainly it's been so long I don't have the time and energy to look right now. I would prefer nothing from MHFM Thanks, Marya Hi Marya, Everything you are looking for should be in the resource forum. The doubtfulness of the Conciliar holy orders is something I have been convinced of for a long time. I hesitate to say, "invalid," in regards to their orders, only because the Church has yet to settle it, but personally I would be shocked if a future Pope ruled in favor of the validity of the Paul VI rites. Anyway, to answer your questions: 1. Vatican II made no direct changes to the sacramental rites, including orders. All of the new rites came later. 2. You can find a good summary of the principle doctrinal problems with Vatican II HERE Note: I am hesitant to say "heretical," on these because the modernists used ambiguity to keep the faithful bishops on board, so the proper way of talking about Vatican II is labeling it "heterodox" in my opinion. John Daly, who wrote the article many years ago is revising it, so perhaps that will be more clear in his revisions. The Catholic Church does not teach with heterodoxy, so the ambiguity does not get them off the hook, it only acts as evidence for their crimes against the Faith, using deception rather than direct heresy, to lead the flock astray. Anyway, we have tremendous evidence since Vatican II that now makes the true meaning of Vatican II crystal clear in seeing the proper interpretation of Vatican II as heretical. The V2 "Popes" have taught over and over again showing that the new doctrine of Vatican II is certainly and directly at odds with Catholic teaching. 3. The new episcopal consecration rite and sacerdotal ordination rites as approved by Paul VI are both seriously problematic and in my opinion are both at a minimum doubtful, and are probably invalid. I have posted many articles on this, in the Church Crisis Resource section, on this forum located HERE but for starters, the one you have from Fr. Cekada explains the matter very well. I intend on adding his study in the that subforum forum as well. Fr. Cekada did very good work on this topic. I would also urge you to read Dr. Coomaraswamy's excellent study on it found HEREThank you very much. I will look into these. I forgot I had a book by Rama C. I already sent my friend some links. I don't have a lot of faith that she will leave the Novus Ordo, but it's not my problem to convert her so I will leave it at that. God gives each of us sufficient grace to save our souls. If this information is more helpful I will give it to her.
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Post by Pacelli on Feb 6, 2021 23:32:49 GMT -5
Hi Marya, Everything you are looking for should be in the resource forum. The doubtfulness of the Conciliar holy orders is something I have been convinced of for a long time. I hesitate to say, "invalid," in regards to their orders, only because the Church has yet to settle it, but personally I would be shocked if a future Pope ruled in favor of the validity of the Paul VI rites. Anyway, to answer your questions: 1. Vatican II made no direct changes to the sacramental rites, including orders. All of the new rites came later. 2. You can find a good summary of the principle doctrinal problems with Vatican II HERE Note: I am hesitant to say "heretical," on these because the modernists used ambiguity to keep the faithful bishops on board, so the proper way of talking about Vatican II is labeling it "heterodox" in my opinion. John Daly, who wrote the article many years ago is revising it, so perhaps that will be more clear in his revisions. The Catholic Church does not teach with heterodoxy, so the ambiguity does not get them off the hook, it only acts as evidence for their crimes against the Faith, using deception rather than direct heresy, to lead the flock astray. Anyway, we have tremendous evidence since Vatican II that now makes the true meaning of Vatican II crystal clear in seeing the proper interpretation of Vatican II as heretical. The V2 "Popes" have taught over and over again showing that the new doctrine of Vatican II is certainly and directly at odds with Catholic teaching. 3. The new episcopal consecration rite and sacerdotal ordination rites as approved by Paul VI are both seriously problematic and in my opinion are both at a minimum doubtful, and are probably invalid. I have posted many articles on this, in the Church Crisis Resource section, on this forum located HERE but for starters, the one you have from Fr. Cekada explains the matter very well. I intend on adding his study in the that subforum forum as well. Fr. Cekada did very good work on this topic. I would also urge you to read Dr. Coomaraswamy's excellent study on it found HEREThank you very much. I will look into these. I forgot I had a book by Rama C. I already sent my friend some links. I don't have a lot of faith that she will leave the Novus Ordo, but it's not my problem to convert her so I will leave it at that. God gives each of us sufficient grace to save our souls. If this information is more helpful I will give it to her. You're welcome. It's hard to say how the information will go, but from my experience, what does usually get results is lots of prayer and having masses said. I have personally known very stubborn and obstinate people who wouldn't even entertain conversion, thinking they were right, begin to believe the truth. The biggest factor that I believe really brings this about more than anything else is having masses said for the person. I will keep her in my prayers.
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Post by Marya Dabrowski on Feb 10, 2021 22:28:25 GMT -5
Thank you very much. I will look into these. I forgot I had a book by Rama C. I already sent my friend some links. I don't have a lot of faith that she will leave the Novus Ordo, but it's not my problem to convert her so I will leave it at that. God gives each of us sufficient grace to save our souls. If this information is more helpful I will give it to her. You're welcome. It's hard to say how the information will go, but from my experience, what does usually get results is lots of prayer and having masses said. I have personally known very stubborn and obstinate people who wouldn't even entertain conversion, thinking they were right, begin to believe the truth. The biggest factor that I believe really brings this about more than anything else is having masses said for the person. I will keep her in my prayers. You're right, I'll do that. Thanks for the advice.
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