|
Post by jen51 on Mar 2, 2018 15:52:34 GMT -5
.... but easy to imagine hell. Does anyone else ever feel that way?
I've heard priests say that if you don't care for the things of God in this life, you would not enjoy Heaven. People choose hell, whether they are cognisant of it or not. This statement has caused me a bit of worry, since I have such a hard time with prayer. It's hard for me to be consistent with it, especially with mental prayer. ESPECIALLY since I've had children. I have had little to no success with mental prayer. I've also heard several traditional priests say that if you don't pray, you will not get to heaven. Prayer time with family is great and also short morning and evening prayers, but that is not enough, they say. To be honest, the idea of praying all the time in heaven seems difficult and daunting to me. It's difficult for me right now, at 30 minutes or less a day. This is a frightening thought. It's hard for me to imagine what heaven will be like. I just can't wrap my mind around it.
Hell, on the other hand, is all too easy for me to imagine. I've read various writings on it by different saints, and I know enough that the thought of hell makes my heart sink. I know I've done many things that would send me there in my past, and I'll likely do more things that would send me there. On one hand, surely it's good to think on it to remind myself to do my best not to go there, and on the other hand I know if I thought of it real frequently I would likely despair. In no way do I consider myself "safe". I hope to go to heaven, but I fear I will go to hell. I make sure to confess any sin that is mortal, and even sins that are venial, but I can't say I see any growth in my spiritual life. It seems as though I'm just getting by, without much feeling at all. I know we can't look at our feelings to tell us what the reality is, but ever since having children I have not felt the closeness with Our Lord that I had before. I do what I know I should, even things that are terribly difficult (being Catholic is not easy in this world, you know), but I can't say for certain if it's out of love for God, or so that I don't go to hell.
Would anyone like to discuss?
|
|
|
Post by Voxxkowalski on Mar 2, 2018 17:52:14 GMT -5
Heaven is impossible to imagine according to the Bible. Eyes have not seen...nor has it entered into the mind of man what God has in store for us. 1st Corinthians 2:9 Prayer in the Roman rite seems to me overly complicated. Overthought, if you will. Not that it is wrong but at times it can be very intellectualized in discussions. Be clear I am not "bashing it". However In the east prayers are of the peasant class. Therefore simplistic and kept at the level of children. There is a prayer tradition of the East called Hesychast. (If you google this you will get an overwrought and over-examined historical lesson...I am not referring to these issues or personages...but the essence of how it would work for the everyday Catholic) While there is an orthoduck bastardization of this tradition that leads to exaggerative mysticism and outright pantheism...the peasant version comes down to simply this. BE still and know. This stillness and practice of stillness is illustrated in how God was not in the thunderclap but in the "still small voice". 1 Kings 19:11-13 As parents of little children or running a busy household mental prayer as the west conceives it can be hard to attain. I suggest the Eastern version (AND NO THIS IS NOT TRANSCENDENTALISM!!!) Going something like this... as with a musical instrument...before playing music, the instrument may have to be tuned. Stillness is tuning your mind and soul. Now what I am speaking of is LITERAL stillness. Finding a spot apart...somewhere some how...for even 10 minutes. Just sit as still as if you were a stone. Not paralyzed but relaxed and not moving...eyes closed...breathing calmed to bare minimum. Youll find when you first practice this your mind will flood with thoughts...like hey I need to check on the kids...make supper...take out the trash...whatever etc etc. This is where our mind keeps us distracted from commune and prayer with God. All however that needs to be done is to simply observe these thoughts...let them come and go...but resist acting on them. Even in thoughts. An example that happens that instead of being still you begin to make a mental list of chores, bills etc etc. Well that is ACTION even if you dont move a muscle. What is stillness and knowing is when after practice you begin to be able to observe your thoughts...and leave them just as that. Thoughts. Now after you get this tuning up in practice...it may take days or you may get it right away...(be patient) you can supplant the thoughts that pop up and turn them into your simplest prayer. This is where the short western ejaculatory prayers can be very effective. Jesus Mary and Joseph save souls!... Or the Hail Mary...the Pater etc. In the East the Jesus prayer was literally fitted to enter the mind and coincide with normal human breathing. (Try it this way...breath in slowly as you mentally say "Jesus Christ" hold for a split second and then exhale as you mentally say "have Mercy on me a sinner" Breath in...breath out etc to the Jesus prayer. What you might find is that your saying this prayer with your breathing reflexively. And as you go about your busy day this little twinkle of stillness will be refreshing over all. And when you actually find that time to sit still...when the kids are napping...or away with relatives. And the House has a moment however small of quiet...youe mind will quickly find its tuning to pray with your soul to God. Forget feelings of guilt about praying or not praying...just pray when you can and when you find the need. (Im not saying you shouldnt feel ashamed if you never pray) Now this is advice for lay folks...not Monks or religious or Clergy. Of course they practice rigid and complex prayer regimines. I think many of us make the mistake of comparing our practices to theirs. We should be as Children. Simplicity...even the "simple" words Jesus Christ...that can be a prayer when said with love and faith. This is my 2 cents FWIW
|
|
|
Post by Marya Dabrowski on Mar 2, 2018 23:35:09 GMT -5
Sometimes when I'm doing a menial task (such as changing a diaper, no lack of those in the day, or dishes or laundry) I ask myself, "How would I do this if Jesus and Mary were watching me?" or "How would I do this if I were doing if for Jesus or Mary?" Let's say they were taking care of this orphan child and asked me to help or they had a counter of dishes. Then I'm thinking of them while doing my work and consider that a good enough for me prayer. Maybe I'm wrong to think this.
AFA Hell goes, sometimes I wonder if anyone of us are going to avoid it. I just trust in my daily rosary and try to remember I'm doing the most reasonable things I can think of to save my soul at this time.
|
|
|
Post by Voxxkowalski on Mar 3, 2018 7:06:58 GMT -5
First off Jesus and Mary are watching. But not to catch you changing a diaper wrong. Be still...Trust...Love and be thankful. These are the attributes that make Our Lord happy. Read the Gospels and see how Jesus dealt with humble and grateful penitents.Truth Mercy being just being generous as possible. You are putting much to much focus on actions over attitude. Luke 10:41 (roll mouse over Luke)Be Mary...not Martha read the entire passage. Mary was still and silent at Jesus feet absorbing His presence and wisdom.
|
|
|
Post by Barbara on Mar 4, 2018 16:18:14 GMT -5
|
|
|
Post by jen51 on Mar 4, 2018 18:50:47 GMT -5
Heaven is impossible to imagine according to the Bible. Eyes have not seen...nor has it entered into the mind of man what God has in store for us. 1st Corinthians 2:9 Prayer in the Roman rite seems to me overly complicated. Overthought, if you will. Not that it is wrong but at times it can be very intellectualized in discussions. Be clear I am not "bashing it". However In the east prayers are of the peasant class. Therefore simplistic and kept at the level of children. There is a prayer tradition of the East called Hesychast. (If you google this you will get an overwrought and over-examined historical lesson...I am not referring to these issues or personages...but the essence of how it would work for the everyday Catholic) While there is an orthoduck bastardization of this tradition that leads to exaggerative mysticism and outright pantheism...the peasant version comes down to simply this. BE still and know. This stillness and practice of stillness is illustrated in how God was not in the thunderclap but in the "still small voice". 1 Kings 19:11-13 As parents of little children or running a busy household mental prayer as the west conceives it can be hard to attain. I suggest the Eastern version (AND NO THIS IS NOT TRANSCENDENTALISM!!!) Going something like this... as with a musical instrument...before playing music, the instrument may have to be tuned. Stillness is tuning your mind and soul. Now what I am speaking of is LITERAL stillness. Finding a spot apart...somewhere some how...for even 10 minutes. Just sit as still as if you were a stone. Not paralyzed but relaxed and not moving...eyes closed...breathing calmed to bare minimum. Youll find when you first practice this your mind will flood with thoughts...like hey I need to check on the kids...make supper...take out the trash...whatever etc etc. This is where our mind keeps us distracted from commune and prayer with God. All however that needs to be done is to simply observe these thoughts...let them come and go...but resist acting on them. Even in thoughts. An example that happens that instead of being still you begin to make a mental list of chores, bills etc etc. Well that is ACTION even if you dont move a muscle. What is stillness and knowing is when after practice you begin to be able to observe your thoughts...and leave them just as that. Thoughts. Now after you get this tuning up in practice...it may take days or you may get it right away...(be patient) you can supplant the thoughts that pop up and turn them into your simplest prayer. This is where the short western ejaculatory prayers can be very effective. Jesus Mary and Joseph save souls!... Or the Hail Mary...the Pater etc. In the East the Jesus prayer was literally fitted to enter the mind and coincide with normal human breathing. (Try it this way...breath in slowly as you mentally say "Jesus Christ" hold for a split second and then exhale as you mentally say "have Mercy on me a sinner" Breath in...breath out etc to the Jesus prayer. What you might find is that your saying this prayer with your breathing reflexively. And as you go about your busy day this little twinkle of stillness will be refreshing over all. And when you actually find that time to sit still...when the kids are napping...or away with relatives. And the House has a moment however small of quiet...youe mind will quickly find its tuning to pray with your soul to God. Forget feelings of guilt about praying or not praying...just pray when you can and when you find the need. (Im not saying you shouldnt feel ashamed if you never pray) Now this is advice for lay folks...not Monks or religious or Clergy. Of course they practice rigid and complex prayer regimines. I think many of us make the mistake of comparing our practices to theirs. We should be as Children. Simplicity...even the "simple" words Jesus Christ...that can be a prayer when said with love and faith. This is my 2 cents FWIW Thankyou, Voxx. I will try what you said. I was telling my husband today how I've really been missing Our Lord as my very close friend. Before children, I spoke with him throughout the day, every day. I thought of God and pondered him in most of my daily routines. It came very naturally. Now it doesn't come naturally. It's like starting back at square one- learning as if I were in preschool or something. I listened to a sermon on prayer last night that was very heartening. He helped me understand more the objective of prayer, and I've been pondering it all day.
|
|
|
Post by jen51 on Mar 4, 2018 18:56:01 GMT -5
Sometimes when I'm doing a menial task (such as changing a diaper, no lack of those in the day, or dishes or laundry) I ask myself, "How would I do this if Jesus and Mary were watching me?" or "How would I do this if I were doing if for Jesus or Mary?" Let's say they were taking care of this orphan child and asked me to help or they had a counter of dishes. Then I'm thinking of them while doing my work and consider that a good enough for me prayer. Maybe I'm wrong to think this. AFA Hell goes, sometimes I wonder if anyone of us are going to avoid it. I just trust in my daily rosary and try to remember I'm doing the most reasonable things I can think of to save my soul at this time. Thankyou, Marya. My sweet husband basically reinforced what you are saying to me here as I have been talking to him about this. Doing all of the small things with great love and diligence is often a mothers prayer.
|
|
|
Post by jen51 on Mar 4, 2018 18:57:25 GMT -5
Thankyou, Barbara! I will check this out tonight.
|
|
|
Post by Voxxkowalski on Mar 4, 2018 19:03:57 GMT -5
The simplest definition of prayer I know is "focusing our mind or thoughts on God" Formal prayers are just Church sanctioned or created formulas by which our minds and thoughts are inescapably on God when we say them. They are shortcuts if you will. While you are saying them distraction from God is harder. BUT sometimes we let the activity of prayer ironically DISTRACT US FROM GOD. If we concentrate too much (like Martha) on the mechanics or frequency of the prayer or even getting the words Just right in SOME cases. (Sometimes, of course, the wording must be right) we can forget God. I find the Jesus prayer or Hail Mary is my Go to when I just can't get my mind clear or am in an out of control stressful thinking episode. But also just literally thinking about God is a form of praying. So to pray continually is to have God in mind as much as Possible. Until when we have lived life our Minds are almost always on God by habit. I remember when I was a young wild teenager...I hardly ever thought about God...but now at 52 Hes in every other thought. My hope is before I die He is all I think about. And after all isnt this what is supposed to be our end result?
|
|
|
Post by Clotilde on Mar 4, 2018 23:18:12 GMT -5
Have you ever read St. Francis de Sales' letter to an expectant mother? There is good advice for our state in life in there and to all people in general.
|
|
|
Post by jen51 on Mar 4, 2018 23:26:20 GMT -5
Have you ever read St. Francis de Sales' letter to an expectant mother? There is good advice for our state in life in there and to all people in general. No I have not read that, or even heard of it. I have gained so much from everything else that I've read of his, so I'm sure it would be an edifying read. I'm going to find it. Thanks, Clotilde!
|
|