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Post by Deleted on Feb 24, 2018 23:25:26 GMT -5
No. Not to be confused with NO or N.O.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 24, 2018 23:26:45 GMT -5
Vinny, under what conditions would you question his papacy? What if he created a One World Church under which umbrella he claimed all religions are contained? What if he obliged infant sacrifice in his code of canon law as a condition of membership in his church? What if he officially, formally, and universally promulgated a Satanic Mass as a replacement of the true Mass? What if, What if, What if. That will never make for a useful or fruitful thread. We could what if this forum into oblivion. Are you saying these things in your "what ifs" are actually so?
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Post by Voxxkowalski on Feb 25, 2018 7:13:07 GMT -5
No. Not to be confused with NO or N.O. Why dont you go to the Mass Promulgated and imprimatured by a Valid Pope?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 25, 2018 14:13:23 GMT -5
No. Not to be confused with NO or N.O. Why dont you go to the Mass Promulgated and imprimatured by a Valid Pope? Is the Divine Liturgy of the Byzantine Rite Ukrainian Catholic Church not one of those?
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Post by Voxxkowalski on Feb 25, 2018 14:21:19 GMT -5
Why dont you go to the Mass Promulgated and imprimatured by a Valid Pope? Is the Divine Liturgy of the Byzantine Rite Ukrainian Catholic Church not one of those? Are you Roman Catholic?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 25, 2018 14:44:13 GMT -5
Vinny, none of us is saying it absolutely must refer to the Novus Ordo, but you did not address the most important point: the revolt is internal and capable of deceiving even the elect. Much like a possessed spirit harms the body of its host, such an internal revolt implies the taking control of material structures within the Church and using them to attack her body. This uniquely describes the Novus Ordo more than any other revolution in the Church. The Barque of Peter! This has always been understood as the Catholic Church as a great ship at sea, which has very special features and characteristics. You present a very bleak vessel, with a weak captain, an unsuspecting crew and passengers deceived to think they are just on a joy ride. "Possessed spirit" is a very strong accusation to use to describe the Church founded by Christ; or the one a majority of Catholics worldwide believe to be the Church founded by Christ. It also describes the type of crisis it will be, of which the Novus Ordo is the only one. The removal of the withholder as the event that opens the floodgates for this apostasy, as it were, just so happens to correspond to the suppression of the Mass, the one thing we have on earth that tempers the mighty justice of God and stays His hand. Are you using Novus Ordo as the entire structure or for the liturgy itself? For now I will assume you mean the entire apparatus. So is the Novus Ordo responsible for this or is it the men (and women) who run the Novus Ordo? Are you saying had the Novus Ordo Mass not been promulgated and the Latin Mass remained, there would still not be an apostasy? When I look at the prophesy as a whole, when Paul mentioned how men would be in the last time, this is how they will be. In one regard, you seem to suggest had the Church not gone through Vatican II changes, she would be able to stand and never touched by apostasy. However, you argue this same Church was too weak to stand against the changes at Vatican II. Which is she? This couldn't have happened without the removal of the Mass, the most efficient withholder that has ever existed. You do not have the removal of the mass. It is alive and well in every sedevacantist chapel worldwide and one can even find it in traditionalist chapel/churches, where in though they recognize the current Pope, they offer only the traditional mass. Finally, Summorum Pontificum allowed churches to use the Latin Mass, but I understand arguably many disagree with the 1962 missal. Removal indicates abolishing. That the Latin Mass is still around and one can find it means it was not removed. You can call all of this coincidence, but unless God is going to make the same type of crisis happen repeatedly, with the Church never fixing the problem, such that the same thing will happen again on (somehow) an even bigger scale, then I can't fathom a better prediction of what has happened. It is categorically the same as the Novus Ordo. There would be no better way by which the elect might be deceived then by the ostensible authority of a man who sits in the Holy Place, commanding their obedience as a condition of salvation. I can think of a worse one. Using your "what if" scenarios you gave me earlier. What if he permits the enemy to offer the pre-Vatican II, Pre-1962, Tridentine Latin Mass? Clearly the Novus Ordo (if it is deceptive) has not deceived you.
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